2005-2014 Mustangs Discussions on the latest S197 model Mustangs from Ford.

Why hold back so much power?

Old 02-16-2006, 03:12 AM
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Default RE: Why hold back so much power?

If Ford were to offer a N/A 5.4 in the S197, dont expect it to be near 400HP. Considering the GT500 is useing a detuned S/C DOHC 5.4L to the tune of 425, they would not want it so close to the next gen Cobra. If, at all, the 5.4L 3v should be expected to make 340-350HP with 400-420LbsTQ. I would not expect more much than that for a production unit becuase you also have to think of predisessing 2000 Cobra R w/ a N/A 5.4L DOHC @ 385HP. But, certainly the added full range of torque would be the biggest factor of increase in performance. Weight, fuel, distribution, tranny, amongst odds and ends would have to be addressed in such a case. Then you have to decide if the added weight will off set the performance increase to make a value of performance per dollar.
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Old 02-16-2006, 03:12 AM
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Default RE: Why hold back so much power?

Yea, I guess my point is that those who wanted that extra power model or option should have been given it. The GT could remain the entry level performance model for those who wanna mod it themselves, or for those who wanna keep their performance affordable. But for those who wanted something with a powerplant that is a step up from the GT....there should be a mustang option from the factory to accomodate.
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Old 02-16-2006, 11:02 AM
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Default RE: Why hold back so much power?

OK I think if you read through this forum you will see that you came to the wrong place to talk about this mess. Everyone here compared this car to the market and we all came to the same conclusion. Price + Power + Style = Decision. There is no other car on the market that can give you 300hp for this price and look good doing it.
For the record I paid 26k for mine fully loaded so this whole 30k that I hear people reference is just nonsense unless they bought the GT convertible. Thats the only way it breaks the 30k threshhold, or they paid more than msrp because they had to have one so bad that the dealer hijacked them in 05.

If you want a 5.4liter engine it is going to cost money. ala GT 500 originally targeted price was 35k Ford worked hard to be able to do that and they missed it by a mile. Upgraded suspension, breaks and motor =$$$ That wit real world US economics you can't sell 160-200 thousand of those cars a year.
I guarantee you that the if the Camaro and the Challenger are produced that they will either have a smaller engine than the concept car or they will be 35-40k. The reality of the current US market dictates what the masses get.
But if you can name me one new car that you can buy that is less than 30k + has 300hp or more + has style that can sell over 150 thousand units a year. I will give you a hundred dollars.

And that is why the Mustang has a 4.6

p.s add a blower for 5k and you can run with any car on the face of the planet for less than 35k
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Old 02-16-2006, 11:15 AM
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Default Power related to ccost of ownership

There a few more things related to corporate american BS side or holding back HP. I changed the topic on the thread.
1) Ford knows that a huge demographic in the market look at total cost of ownership prior to buying cars. They've been doing this since the 60's when they would rate a 428CJ at 330 hp or a Boss 302 at 290 hp when these cars actually produced a lot more. What it did was reduce your insurance premiums hence the TCO was lower and people would buy more cars. Similar concept here. They can't lie about the rated HP because insurance companies caught on. However, since only like 10% of the market are actually looking for that kind of snot under the hood (400 hp+), why mass produce a car that costs so much to own that less people will buy it. Do you think it is a mystery that they made a highly efficient, easily modifiable car that you can turn into a mean ***** (with 500hp) for less than $10k? They know that all the gear heads like us are going to spend the $10k anyway and if your VIN number says the car is a stock GT (not Roush or Saleen, etc.) your insurance premiums are much lower in most cases. Once your HP is in the danger zone, it doesn't matter what age you are, driving record, etc. the insurance will be high if the ride has 500 hp. If grandma accidentaly lets the clutch out to fast and drives the care right through the front door of 7-eleven because the car was overpowered, everybody loses.

2) Ever notice that the past few years the only changes from the LX/V6 to the GT are the engines (maybe the tranny) and a bunch of cosmetic stuff. In the 05/06 the v6 is an iron block and the GT is an aluminum block and most of the weight chareteristics of the GT and V6 are identical and no suspension modifications. This makes it a much simpler, cheaper manufacturing process to make two different versions. If the V6 has less power and if the GT had 50-100 more HP Ford would have to spend a lot more money customizing the rest of the car to meet the drivetrain charecteristics. This is simply one of the ford ways of improving the bottom line. Remember when the GT had the V-8 and the LX had the 4 cylinder? Ford was essentially building 2 different cars. In my opinion if an new owner is going to pull the motor on an 05-06 and really make some significan internal changes, as well as the body stuff, you might as well start with a V6 version and save yourself $5k on the initial purchase in addition to saving a lot of dough on insurance.
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Old 02-16-2006, 11:58 AM
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Default RE: Power related to ccost of ownership

I think ford came up with a good power to economy ratio. The mustang is fast, not lamborgini fast, but fast enough for most and the fuel economy is vantastic given the performance and the fact it is a V8. It will get on the highway as good as 27mpg. I also have a 1999 Chevy Blazer V6 4.3L H.O. engine, it's pretty fast for a SUV but at best it will get maybe 20mpg on the highway. I can always modiefy it or drop a 5.4L Cobra engine in it someday if I want. The price isn't bad for all that either.

I believe that this big horse power tread isn't going to last long. Higher gas prices will have it's effect in the long term as well as higher insurance rates. Insurance Companies will look for any reason to jack up rates.

Oh whats that you have a 450hp 2007 Challenger that cost about 35-37K. Well lets just add this up. You will be paying almost as much a month for insurance as you would be paying for financing.
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Old 02-16-2006, 07:53 PM
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Default RE: Power related to ccost of ownership

So, the consensus here is that Ford shouldn't bother making the GT500 at all......since it won't be a mass market product and has more HP than most ppl know what to do with........correct?
I agree that the new mustang GT is hands down the best bang for the buck car on the road today. I'm not saying it needs more power or needs to be tinkered with. I just think it would be nice to have a mustang a step above the GT in the low 30's price range..........since the new cobra (or GT500) is now officially out of the everyday man's price range. Sure, I can spend a few thousand upgrading my GT to 400 horses (and I will). But had I had the option to pick it up from the factory with a nice NA motor making that much from the getgo....I would have put down the extra few thousand, and I suspect many others would have too. I see nothing wrong with having different mustang models to chose from. Mach 1's, Boss's, Saleen's, Roush's, GT500's......variety is the spice of life, i say. And remember that not everyone shopping for a new mustang is on as limited a budget as some of us folk. Look at the ppl plopping down 45K+ for Roush's and Saleen's right now. You can't tell me there wouldn't be a market for a low 30's 400HP NA mustang option.

P.S. Insurance isn't a good excuse to limit big hp mustang models either. My insurance misunderstood me when I called for a quote on my 05, and turns out it would only cost me 200 a month to insure a brand spankin new Ford GT So don't tell me I can't insure a 400hp mustang for a reasonable premium.
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Old 02-17-2006, 01:25 AM
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Default RE: Power related to ccost of ownership

You don't buy a Rolex because you have to, you buy it because you can and you want to. A rolex won't technically do anything different than a casio. But it's build better, had more style, and lasts longer. Still, it tells time like a casio. These are the type of people that the GT500 is being built for. Not the average JOE, but for the elitist with a flaire for performance. Some well to do like a mercedes c320 or a nice clk, and to each his own, but does a mercedes or a cobra actually perform any different function than a toyota camry. NO. They both get you from point A to poin B. It becomes a matter of taste and fincances. It's not so much the power, everyone here is correct, because any one can get a GT, sink 10K into it, and beat the new cobra at it's own game. That's not the point. it's a status symbol, a personal flavor, and the ability to stand out in the crowd that make the cobra appealing.
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Old 02-17-2006, 02:01 PM
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Default RE: Why hold back so much power?

ORIGINAL: ghost63

I have no idea.[&:] To reiterate the point to start with - forget Toyota or Tundra or truck. Think 5.7L V8 with more HP and closely matched torque.

In unrelated events - that manifold cover in your sig is sweeeeeet
So, compare just the engines when you can't buy the 5.7liter Toyota in anything but their truck?? The LS1 puts out more power, the LS2 puts out more power then the 4.6liter Mustang and so do a host of other engines. People don't buy the Mustang just for the 300hp "number" they buy it because it's nearly if not the fastest Mustang GT ever built, it can go from 300 crank hp to 345 crank hp with a CAI and tune which will out-do the Toyota if you're just looking at engines (God I hate doing the "if you add this it will do this but what the heck, why not...).

The Mustang is so much more than the engine residing in the engine bay, it's rich in history, it's 100,000 times more cool than ANY Toyota and it draws a crowd every where it goes. I've never seen anybody go up to a guy in a Tundra to see what it's got, why because nobody cares.

There is a reason why GM doesn't build the F-Body anymore, the Mustang killed it, with less performance to boot. This isn't meant to be a slam against the F-Body, they were and are damn fine cars, but the Mustang out-sold them by huge numbers.

I digress, don't buy the Mustang for the number, buy it because it's a damn fine car and a site cooler than most cars out there. If you want the most HP and Torque so you can play the bragging game, don't buy the Mustang.
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