ok so i could be drivin like 30 and drop it into second with a vortech and ill feel a huge pull.. correct? so you mean if ure in 4th about 2k rpms the car will pull until redline with the vortech?

 

If you drop it down it will pull instantly.

If you are at 2000 RPM in 4th it will not bog, but it will not make instant boost like a KB car. You need to be above 3000 RPM to really start making power.

HOWEVER.

At where my dyno sheet starts, 2980 RPM or so, I am alraedy making more power with the blower than I was before at ANY rpm. So they do make more power even down low, they just don't have a table flat TQ curve like the kb cars.

Did you see my dyno sheet? I posted it in 4.6. Here it is again, look it over. Take note this is on a mustang dyno, so it reads quite a bit lower than a dynojet.



[IMG]local://upfiles/4605/5F1BE73751154F19BE9E32FA9EE8FB40.jpg[/IMG]

 

I have been waitin on this post forever. The last few times I tried to explain how biased he was, he basically said I didn't know what I was talking about. It kinda makes it hard to argue with someone who lives, eats and breathes drag racing. Ah, gotta love the Birdieman.

 

Yeah, gotta love the same guy that argued with me for like 10 pages about how a turbo on a stock 4.6L will not make more RWHP than a blower on the same car, even though this has been proved time and time and time again.........

Seriously, I am still waiting on the video. Talk about bias, there are like 20 people on this site that make hand love to KB videos all night long, but have never ridden in either type of car, let alone owned one. Aboslulty no proof whatsoever of what they state, and little idea of what they are even talking about. Talking about the centrifugals like they are lagging like turbos etc. Total stupidity.

I am really "biased" in that i did the research, talked to people that sell and install and own the 2 different blowers, took into consideration the performance/dollar value, and made a informed decision

Plain and simple, the centrifugal cars are FASTER with everything else equal, you get a blower capable of more power if you decide to upgrade (nothing like selling a 5000 dollar kit for 1500 bucks to upgrade) and are more streetable. On top of all of this the average price for the do it yourselfer is far cheaper, and if you are getting it installed FORGET about it.

If you acutally LOOK at the situation and start asking around, instead of just liking a blower because it makes a mean sound, you will start to realise how much total BS is out there. NOBODY ran the KB units or gave 2 ****s about them until the terminators came out. Centrifgual was just THE way people went with mustangs, espcially the mod motors.

Then the 03s came out, and its almost a no brainer to swap on the twin screw in place of the eaton. Funny thing is, you can still build a faster 03 with the procharger kits (although the cost situation is definatly reversed) than the 2.2L KB cars. But regardless you are talking about a totally different setup, and a totally different blower (much bigger). The 1.7 is NOT in the 2.2L's class. Its not the same difference as the S and T trims (virtually nothing till you start to make real big numbers).

I guess if you really want to spend a grand or two more to have a car with less performance, its up to you. At least it will sound cool

 

is there alot of difference in riding in a kb 1.7 gt or a vortech gt like yours? probably not..

 

All things equal? Yeah, probably not. Both blowers will be pushing the limits of the stock shortblock.

I still say the centrifugal will outrun it pretty good in a race, but I have no video evidence of this.

I need to find a 1.7 car bad. Unfortunatly, I don't know of any KB 2vs around here. Maybe I can find one up in st louis and we can settle this.

 

hey kendiesel im pumping out only 8 pounds of boost....ahem....after the short block is replaced im looking forward to 14 psi... i think the best kit for the money is the procharger ...and nanaki should back me up on this one even though hes got a vortech. But i like all of the blowers. I bought mine for 3600 with everything i needed from rpmoutlet.com and it came with a front mounted air-to-air intercooler. My cams are stock, i have an o/r x pipe and some flowmasters welded in ..that are going out soon for some lm1's ....and 3.73 gears. I dont feel any lag whatsoever....in fact i cant catch traction first two and half of third gear.... how much more do u need? And my power never drops until the last 100 rpm before the red line and even then it doesnt drop tremendously.

 

First of all, allow me to jog your memory. The argument I made about turbos was simply, there is no logical reason to do turbos vs a blower on a stock 4.6 block. You proved me right when you installed your Vortec.
Now that is a whole different issue, the $ per hp issue. $ for dollar, i have never tried to argue that, for the $, a screw blower is a better value than a centrifugal, for the hp. You talk about how you did the research and talked to people. The people you obviously talked to are centrifugal people. Had you talked to people with experience in both blowers, i belive your view wouldn't be so biased.
This statement really shows your ignorance. I covered this with you before, but I'll refresh your short memory. Twin screw blowers didn't exist for street use prior to the 'terminator' era. Twin screws are new on the market; they have only been around (for steet use) for about 4 years. Prior to that, it was roots and centrifugals. That's why you see so many more centrifugal setups at the track, because there are just that many more out there. More and more screw setups are showing up at the track every day.
The 'spending more $ per hp' is definitely a valid arguement. Hands down. But when you say things like 'less overall performance', that is really not true. I guess it's true if you talk to centrifugal people, with centrifugal experience, but when im at the track and see a Whipple Cobra run mid 10's @ 16 psi, and a Vortec cobra run the same, at the same psi, it's a tough argument.

For everyone reading this, the point I am making is that both setups have there strengths and weaknesses. Both have their good points and weaker points. A non intercooled Vortec's car's strongest point is at the track. That is where it shines the best. That is where you will get the most out of it. A twin screw shines its best on the street. That's where it benefits you the most. Just because a centrifugals best application is the strip, that doesn't mean that is outperforms a screw setup hands down. As a matter of fact, the driver is a much bigger variable, and compitance behind the wheel overrides any slight performance variation the 2 blowers might have. The bottom line is that if your car is mostly a street driver, with less track appearances, that favors a screw blower set up. I have owned and tuned both. I have driven both at the track and street. I am speaking from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE with the 2 different setups, something you are not doing.

 

Wow, really good info man.

 

Why exactly do you say that the KB cars are "better for the street"? I understand the point of down low torque, but when was the last time you started off a race at 2000 RPM? Not to mention that espically on a street situation, the low end torque is not going to favor the realitively ****ty traction available.

For the entire race, you are going to spend .1 seconds out of your powerband. After that, all things being equal, the centrifugal is going to make more average power (in the band) and more peak power as well. The fattest part of my TQ curve is right up top, right where you need it. Where is the advantage?? All of the KB freaks on this website keep talking about the centrifugal lag, but it is just not there. The car still makes more power at around 2800 RPM now than it did at any point before. It does not pull down low like a KB car, but why are you starting off down so far?? I have a 5 speed car for a reason.

I am not saying that there is no advantage to a KB setup, but there isn't much for the price. I do not see the allure of making a ****ton of power down low, where you are driving everyday. I am not kidding when I say that my grandmother could drive the car if she stayed out of the throttle (if she could drive a stick that is). I do not think you could say that about a KB setup.

Kb's website says they have been selling twin screw superchargers since 1991: "Why do I see more centrifugal supercharged Mustangs than Kenne Bell twin screws at the drags? 1. Even though Kenne Bell has produced thousands of Mustang kits since 1991...."

Another site specifys Mr. Norm Drazy as bringing twin screw technology to america to use in performance applications in 1988.

I guess this "really shows your ignorance" on the twin screws [:-]

If I could find our old turbo on a stock 4.6 arguments, I do beileve you went from saying that they could not make more power to saying that there was no point in doing it on a stock 4.6, which I did not argue with you on. For the money there is absolutly no reason to run a turbo kit on a stock bottom end, as you could spend the extra cash with the blower car and make alot more power. If i had an unlimited supply of money, I would still run a turbo setup on a stock 4.6, but the kits are just too dammed expensive.

However, the exact same arguement you were making about the turbos, I can make about the KB kits. Even with the 5000 dollar number people keep throwing around (and that seems low from the tuned kits I have seen) you are still a grand off of my total price to get the car running. 1000 bucks is over 1/2 way to a new rotating assembly, or enough cash to port and polish the heads etc etc.

I talked to several owners of both KB and Centrifugal cars, including both 2v and 4v guys, KBs, vortechs, and ATI procharger cars. I did more research than just reading the KB "FAQ" website (which is for some STRANGE reason bias towards twin screws competely, I wonder why).

The centrifugals included in the paxton, vortech, and ATI kits simply outperform the 1.7L blower. You get more power and speed for less investement, have more options for upgrades in the future, put less stress on the motor on a daily basis, the advantages go on and on.