FRPP Supercharger.....yay or nay
10-09-2006, 03:14 PM
#51
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12,575
RE: FRPP Supercharger.....yay or nay
ORIGINAL: droptoppony
This where you are wrong and i keep trying to explain....
take equal stock 2V's with PI engines....
eaton kit 6psi (frpp/aed/saleen) = 330rwhp
Vortech base kit...you guessed it @ 330rwhp
Kenne Bell nic 6psi kit...yup again @330rwhp
these are legit numbers that have been posted by many with these kits for years.
At the same low boost #'s it makes just as much power as the rest....after about 8psi the eaton gets to hot to stay with the other blowers in power production.
i am not saying the eaton is a great blower and better then any other, i'm just saying that at low boost it works just as good as more expensive blowers.
we'll just have to agree to disagree [8D]
ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
Dude, plain and simple.
A vortech/paxton/ati/KB car will be faster with equal mods. It will make more horsepower on the same boost level. It will make more horsepower up top (the eaton will fall off in the upper range).
Dude, plain and simple.
A vortech/paxton/ati/KB car will be faster with equal mods. It will make more horsepower on the same boost level. It will make more horsepower up top (the eaton will fall off in the upper range).
take equal stock 2V's with PI engines....
eaton kit 6psi (frpp/aed/saleen) = 330rwhp
Vortech base kit...you guessed it @ 330rwhp
Kenne Bell nic 6psi kit...yup again @330rwhp
these are legit numbers that have been posted by many with these kits for years.
At the same low boost #'s it makes just as much power as the rest....after about 8psi the eaton gets to hot to stay with the other blowers in power production.
i am not saying the eaton is a great blower and better then any other, i'm just saying that at low boost it works just as good as more expensive blowers.
we'll just have to agree to disagree [8D]
2. It still WONT make the same amount of power. This is simple math here. The eaton is FAR less efficent than EITHER of the other two blowers.
This has been proven time and time and time and time again.
You also are trying to make it seem like the eaton is more reliable or something. This is also not true. I will put the quality of a vortech/kb up against a eaton ANY day of the week.
Eatons are used by OEMs because they can mass produce them CHEAPLY and they are easy to adapt to existing lower intakes. It is also not possible to do a simple pulley swap and make 600+ WHP on your 03/04 cobra, which is a definant advantage to a company that offers warrenty....
Plain and simple, you are wasting time/money on a FRPP kit when you can get a much better kit, with much more potential down the line, more parts, and more power, for only a few hundred bucks more.
Seriously, who the hell spends 3500+ to run 6 PSI and make 330~ WHP?
10-09-2006, 03:15 PM
#52
3rd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 621
RE: FRPP Supercharger.....yay or nay
ORIGINAL: xxkazp3rxx
im telling you guys - you don't want an Eaton, if you don't have to have one. The heat it produces kills Forged Cobra Motors... at high speeds.... I can't wait to get rid of mine. It's not a point of power all the time, the Eaton just produces a killer amount of heat, and in case you don't know.. Heat is not good for horsepower, or motors...
Army what he means about up top, is that centrifugal s/c's normally make most of there power up around 3-4k - with the Eaton I get mine at 2000-2500,
im telling you guys - you don't want an Eaton, if you don't have to have one. The heat it produces kills Forged Cobra Motors... at high speeds.... I can't wait to get rid of mine. It's not a point of power all the time, the Eaton just produces a killer amount of heat, and in case you don't know.. Heat is not good for horsepower, or motors...
Army what he means about up top, is that centrifugal s/c's normally make most of there power up around 3-4k - with the Eaton I get mine at 2000-2500,
Thanks, I can live with that rpm range for what I want. You make a great case and I'll tell ya if someone trusted on the forum was selling a cent unit for $2500-$2700, I'd be all over it. But I've priced them out and between the unit it'self and the manifold kit I'm in the $4200-$4400 range. Then I'll start getting into hp ranges that should have a better (forged) bottom end, better tranny, yadda,yadda,mo money,mo money.
Now I do well for myself but I have a house, 5 cars, a daughter in the service that I spend way too much money on
, a wife who knows the differance between a Rolex and a Timex, and another daughter starting college soon. Soooooo $3300 for an extra 100 ponies no bottom end work sounds pretty good.Droptop makes alot of good points and being as he is running the blower himself, I think it wiil work for my puposes from all that he as stated
I cannot thank all of you enough for all the help and info
10-09-2006, 10:44 PM
#53
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 2,489
RE: FRPP Supercharger.....yay or nay
ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
1. Why would anyone run a vortech/KB at 6 PSI? There is no reason to run a vortech/KB kit at 6psi, so even if your argument that they are the same at 6 PSI was correct, it would be a moot point.
2. It still WONT make the same amount of power. This is simple math here. The eaton is FAR less efficent than EITHER of the other two blowers.
This has been proven time and time and time and time again.
You also are trying to make it seem like the eaton is more reliable or something. This is also not true. I will put the quality of a vortech/kb up against a eaton ANY day of the week.
Eatons are used by OEMs because they can mass produce them CHEAPLY and they are easy to adapt to existing lower intakes. It is also not possible to do a simple pulley swap and make 600+ WHP on your 03/04 cobra, which is a definant advantage to a company that offers warrenty....
Plain and simple, you are wasting time/money on a FRPP kit when you can get a much better kit, with much more potential down the line, more parts, and more power, for only a few hundred bucks more.
Seriously, who the hell spends 3500+ to run 6 PSI and make 330~ WHP?
ORIGINAL: droptoppony
This where you are wrong and i keep trying to explain....
take equal stock 2V's with PI engines....
eaton kit 6psi (frpp/aed/saleen) = 330rwhp
Vortech base kit...you guessed it @ 330rwhp
Kenne Bell nic 6psi kit...yup again @330rwhp
these are legit numbers that have been posted by many with these kits for years.
At the same low boost #'s it makes just as much power as the rest....after about 8psi the eaton gets to hot to stay with the other blowers in power production.
i am not saying the eaton is a great blower and better then any other, i'm just saying that at low boost it works just as good as more expensive blowers.
we'll just have to agree to disagree [8D]
ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
Dude, plain and simple.
A vortech/paxton/ati/KB car will be faster with equal mods. It will make more horsepower on the same boost level. It will make more horsepower up top (the eaton will fall off in the upper range).
Dude, plain and simple.
A vortech/paxton/ati/KB car will be faster with equal mods. It will make more horsepower on the same boost level. It will make more horsepower up top (the eaton will fall off in the upper range).
take equal stock 2V's with PI engines....
eaton kit 6psi (frpp/aed/saleen) = 330rwhp
Vortech base kit...you guessed it @ 330rwhp
Kenne Bell nic 6psi kit...yup again @330rwhp
these are legit numbers that have been posted by many with these kits for years.
At the same low boost #'s it makes just as much power as the rest....after about 8psi the eaton gets to hot to stay with the other blowers in power production.
i am not saying the eaton is a great blower and better then any other, i'm just saying that at low boost it works just as good as more expensive blowers.
we'll just have to agree to disagree [8D]
2. It still WONT make the same amount of power. This is simple math here. The eaton is FAR less efficent than EITHER of the other two blowers.
This has been proven time and time and time and time again.
You also are trying to make it seem like the eaton is more reliable or something. This is also not true. I will put the quality of a vortech/kb up against a eaton ANY day of the week.
Eatons are used by OEMs because they can mass produce them CHEAPLY and they are easy to adapt to existing lower intakes. It is also not possible to do a simple pulley swap and make 600+ WHP on your 03/04 cobra, which is a definant advantage to a company that offers warrenty....
Plain and simple, you are wasting time/money on a FRPP kit when you can get a much better kit, with much more potential down the line, more parts, and more power, for only a few hundred bucks more.
Seriously, who the hell spends 3500+ to run 6 PSI and make 330~ WHP?
The base non ic'd KB is 6psi...and its more like almost 4000 to run 330rwhp...the Vortech base kit is 7/8 psi and still only makes 330rwhp...the eaton kit is 3300 and will make the same HP....are you getting it yet? For a low powered street cruiser its a good kit.....
And as far as reliability goes the eaton will run 150,000 miles easily...KB's get alot of issues with oil leaks and Centri's need to be rebuilt.
10-14-2006, 12:27 PM
#54
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,893
RE: FRPP Supercharger.....yay or nay
Sig from another board:
"2004 GT Red Fire vert
MAC 2.5 in catted h-pipe, MAC 2.5 in FlowPath cat back w/ 3 in tips, KB 1.7L @ 9psi, 80mm Accufab TB, 90mm MAF, KB Boost tube, 36lbm injectors, 160F thermo, KB switch chip, 20 Amp KB Boost A Pump, Auto Meter fuel press & boost press gages, AEM UEGO A/F ratio meter, Max Motorsport full length subframes, 03 Cobra radiator.
411rwhp/414rwtq"
I don't believe thats intercooled, and it's the 1.7L KB.
-Army, in the end it's your car and any decision you make won't be wrong because its your opinion in the end... but, you can find Vortech 8psi kits out there for 2900 or so, it's not that difficult. Check Modularfords.com, svtperformance.com, and Corral.net - they would have the best chance of finding that deal there. I do think, that you'd be settling for the bronze medal, instead of going after the gold. If you don't have the money yet, wait a lil bit longer before you get it then. I am a firm believer in doing it right the first time. I have driven cars with a FRPP s/c on it, with a 2v engine. Really not impressive, bad when they're running with lightly modded new edges... with your pi swap you would still be running low 13's... It's a weak supercharger, it really is - even on my motor (32v 4.6). Runs hot, and really can hurt the motor... I just want to warn you - Good luck with it ArmyDad.
"2004 GT Red Fire vert
MAC 2.5 in catted h-pipe, MAC 2.5 in FlowPath cat back w/ 3 in tips, KB 1.7L @ 9psi, 80mm Accufab TB, 90mm MAF, KB Boost tube, 36lbm injectors, 160F thermo, KB switch chip, 20 Amp KB Boost A Pump, Auto Meter fuel press & boost press gages, AEM UEGO A/F ratio meter, Max Motorsport full length subframes, 03 Cobra radiator.
411rwhp/414rwtq"
I don't believe thats intercooled, and it's the 1.7L KB.
-Army, in the end it's your car and any decision you make won't be wrong because its your opinion in the end... but, you can find Vortech 8psi kits out there for 2900 or so, it's not that difficult. Check Modularfords.com, svtperformance.com, and Corral.net - they would have the best chance of finding that deal there. I do think, that you'd be settling for the bronze medal, instead of going after the gold. If you don't have the money yet, wait a lil bit longer before you get it then. I am a firm believer in doing it right the first time. I have driven cars with a FRPP s/c on it, with a 2v engine. Really not impressive, bad when they're running with lightly modded new edges... with your pi swap you would still be running low 13's... It's a weak supercharger, it really is - even on my motor (32v 4.6). Runs hot, and really can hurt the motor... I just want to warn you - Good luck with it ArmyDad.
10-14-2006, 01:25 PM
#55
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 533
RE: FRPP Supercharger.....yay or nay
ORIGINAL: xxkazp3rxx
Sig from another board:
"2004 GT Red Fire vert
MAC 2.5 in catted h-pipe, MAC 2.5 in FlowPath cat back w/ 3 in tips, KB 1.7L @ 9psi, 80mm Accufab TB, 90mm MAF, KB Boost tube, 36lbm injectors, 160F thermo, KB switch chip, 20 Amp KB Boost A Pump, Auto Meter fuel press & boost press gages, AEM UEGO A/F ratio meter, Max Motorsport full length subframes, 03 Cobra radiator.
411rwhp/414rwtq"
I don't believe thats intercooled, and it's the 1.7L KB.
-Army, in the end it's your car and any decision you make won't be wrong because its your opinion in the end... but, you can find Vortech 8psi kits out there for 2900 or so, it's not that difficult. Check Modularfords.com, svtperformance.com, and Corral.net - they would have the best chance of finding that deal there. I do think, that you'd be settling for the bronze medal, instead of going after the gold. If you don't have the money yet, wait a lil bit longer before you get it then. I am a firm believer in doing it right the first time. I have driven cars with a FRPP s/c on it, with a 2v engine. Really not impressive, bad when they're running with lightly modded new edges... with your pi swap you would still be running low 13's... It's a weak supercharger, it really is - even on my motor (32v 4.6). Runs hot, and really can hurt the motor... I just want to warn you - Good luck with it ArmyDad.
Sig from another board:
"2004 GT Red Fire vert
MAC 2.5 in catted h-pipe, MAC 2.5 in FlowPath cat back w/ 3 in tips, KB 1.7L @ 9psi, 80mm Accufab TB, 90mm MAF, KB Boost tube, 36lbm injectors, 160F thermo, KB switch chip, 20 Amp KB Boost A Pump, Auto Meter fuel press & boost press gages, AEM UEGO A/F ratio meter, Max Motorsport full length subframes, 03 Cobra radiator.
411rwhp/414rwtq"
I don't believe thats intercooled, and it's the 1.7L KB.
-Army, in the end it's your car and any decision you make won't be wrong because its your opinion in the end... but, you can find Vortech 8psi kits out there for 2900 or so, it's not that difficult. Check Modularfords.com, svtperformance.com, and Corral.net - they would have the best chance of finding that deal there. I do think, that you'd be settling for the bronze medal, instead of going after the gold. If you don't have the money yet, wait a lil bit longer before you get it then. I am a firm believer in doing it right the first time. I have driven cars with a FRPP s/c on it, with a 2v engine. Really not impressive, bad when they're running with lightly modded new edges... with your pi swap you would still be running low 13's... It's a weak supercharger, it really is - even on my motor (32v 4.6). Runs hot, and really can hurt the motor... I just want to warn you - Good luck with it ArmyDad.
10-14-2006, 07:48 PM
#56
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,387
RE: FRPP Supercharger.....yay or nay
For what ArmyDad wants, the FRPP kit will work just fine for him. Most of this thread is just a variation of the same centri vs. twin screw/roots debate, except the FRPP is usually ignored.
The FRPP is not intercooled and I doubt it could be, unless you wanted an air-to-air pre-cooler. Yeah, I doubt it would work, but who knows. Might be interesting to see the results. Anyway, with a smaller pulley and a little porting, it might work better than factory, but not much.
I'm still thinking of putting one on mine once the warranty expires, but it's a DD and I don't need 8,583hp. Once I retire, my wife and I are considering building an SN95 for play time, but keep it legal at the same time. The car will get a KB or ATI hairdryer.
Ya'll have a nice day
The FRPP is not intercooled and I doubt it could be, unless you wanted an air-to-air pre-cooler. Yeah, I doubt it would work, but who knows. Might be interesting to see the results. Anyway, with a smaller pulley and a little porting, it might work better than factory, but not much.
I'm still thinking of putting one on mine once the warranty expires, but it's a DD and I don't need 8,583hp. Once I retire, my wife and I are considering building an SN95 for play time, but keep it legal at the same time. The car will get a KB or ATI hairdryer.
Ya'll have a nice day
10-15-2006, 07:33 AM
#57
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location:
Posts: 432
RE: FRPP Supercharger.....yay or nay
ok , with a supercharger on a 01 gt , with a proper tune , what would be safe hp numbers to run , and what would be the life expectancy of the motor . Im asking because its my daily driver but i still want it to be fast . I was hoping to have 360-400 rwhp one day . I just wanna know how fast my engine will deplete .
10-15-2006, 08:36 AM
#58
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,387
RE: FRPP Supercharger.....yay or nay
You can safely run 8-9 psi on a motor without shortening the life span; 10 psi with a really good tune. More than that, you starting shaving time off the motor.
With a safe tune, you can get 380-405 rwhp. That is about the limit of both the motor and the drivetrain. Some say 450 is the limit, but no one wants to test that theory these days.
Hope this help you.
With a safe tune, you can get 380-405 rwhp. That is about the limit of both the motor and the drivetrain. Some say 450 is the limit, but no one wants to test that theory these days.
Hope this help you.
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