Cam ?s
6th Gear Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,726
From: Slidell, Louisiana
RE: Cam ?s
also if you plan on running a 200 shot you should look into a dedicated fuel cell/ pump for the nitrous. You'll probably need to upgrade the fuel rails if you haven't done so. I have the 200 shot jets, -4an nitrous line and adapter and was planning on doing a 200 shot until I did more research in it and realised it would cost me more than it's worth. If you are prepared to make that step and need the jets, etc let me know. I'll sell it for a good price. It's all brand new sitting in the box.
I ♥ Acer
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,928
From: Colorado- 8500 feet!
RE: Cam ?s
ORIGINAL: 01GT4.6
no I think you misunderstood what I said in the Typhoon thread. I have NEVER used the Typhoon, I was saying that I had learned from others mistakes which to me is better than making my own mistake. But what I think you are referring to was reply #7, that was a quote that I had taken from the link I posted about someone else who lost 40hp. I know that most people go with an aluminum intake because of fear of a nitrous backfire, but I have seen a nitrous backfire take out an aluminum intake and it wasn't pretty. I'd say the damage was worse that it would have been if it would have been a plastic intake.
ORIGINAL: ben790450
Ok well there we go lol. So wait not to jack the thread but wasnt it you that said you had trouble with N20 on the typhoon . . .becuase i've run it so far with no problems. . .but here soon im gonna be getting a 150 or 200 shot and i want to forsee any problems that i have. .. . . And your experience here would be appreciated
Ok well there we go lol. So wait not to jack the thread but wasnt it you that said you had trouble with N20 on the typhoon . . .becuase i've run it so far with no problems. . .but here soon im gonna be getting a 150 or 200 shot and i want to forsee any problems that i have. .. . . And your experience here would be appreciated
I ♥ Acer
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,928
From: Colorado- 8500 feet!
RE: Cam ?s
ORIGINAL: 01GT4.6
also if you plan on running a 200 shot you should look into a dedicated fuel cell/ pump for the nitrous. You'll probably need to upgrade the fuel rails if you haven't done so. I have the 200 shot jets, -4an nitrous line and adapter and was planning on doing a 200 shot until I did more research in it and realised it would cost me more than it's worth. If you are prepared to make that step and need the jets, etc let me know. I'll sell it for a good price. It's all brand new sitting in the box.
also if you plan on running a 200 shot you should look into a dedicated fuel cell/ pump for the nitrous. You'll probably need to upgrade the fuel rails if you haven't done so. I have the 200 shot jets, -4an nitrous line and adapter and was planning on doing a 200 shot until I did more research in it and realised it would cost me more than it's worth. If you are prepared to make that step and need the jets, etc let me know. I'll sell it for a good price. It's all brand new sitting in the box.
6th Gear Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,575
From: United States
RE: Cam ?s
ORIGINAL: ben790450
I disagree. lol. With a good tune you can see a lot more of a difference between stage 1 and 2's. But thats also not fair becuase stage 2's are MEANT for ported heads. I know you strongly disgree with me and Mitch and Scott at VT becuase by some reason you know more than all of us combined including the guys that make em but thats fine thats your opinion. Put stage 1 and 2 cams on STOCK heads and yeah you wont see that much of a difference. Put stage 1 and 2 cams in aftermarket stage 2 or 3 heads and you'll see a very big difference. Idk its like putting headers on a car and leaving the rest of the exhaust stock. Yeah sure you can do it no problem! But aren't you meant to do the rest of the exhaust too for full potential and if you call any exhaust shop wont they tell you that you should replace the mid pipe and cat back as well?
ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
Thats the entire point, there is a point to using a stage 2 cam... it will make more power than a stage 1.
stock heads or not, shortblock or not, the stage 2 cam will make more peak and redline power, and it will make the peak power later in the band. Thats the biggest problem with the stock 2v cams... they fall off around 5500 RPM. My car pulled right to redline with the stage 2s... I picked up 30 WHP at redline and about 20 WHP at peak (5500ish) with the stage 2s. From 5500 to 6000 I lost about 3 whp... compared to 30+ before the swap.
The reason you can't get the "full" potential from a stage 2 cam isn't the head flow... its the RPM limit of the stock motor. The more agressive cam, the more it likes to rev, and you have a upper limit of around 6000-6200 RPM on a stock 2v rotating assembly.
As stated however, the differences in the two cams are so small that almost nobody could acutally spot them on a dyno. Were talking 3-5 WHP differences at any point here.. nothing signficant.
Look at the difference between the 2 and 1... its a very small difference cam spec wise:
.560/.575 lift 225/235 .050 duration, 108 LSA
540/550 lift 224/226 duration, 110 LSA
Were just making a mountain out of a molehill here. If you want a little more agressive idle and don't mind giving up a few FT/LBs on the low side get a stage 2. If you want every bit of TQ you can get plus a nice upgrade up top get the stage 1s.
I have a hunderd dollar bill that says that nobody could acutally get in a car, and without hearing the idle tell me just by accelration if it was a stage1 or 2 cam. Like I said, 3, maybe 5 whp difference at any point in the band... you cannot detect that on your butt dyno.
Thats the entire point, there is a point to using a stage 2 cam... it will make more power than a stage 1.
stock heads or not, shortblock or not, the stage 2 cam will make more peak and redline power, and it will make the peak power later in the band. Thats the biggest problem with the stock 2v cams... they fall off around 5500 RPM. My car pulled right to redline with the stage 2s... I picked up 30 WHP at redline and about 20 WHP at peak (5500ish) with the stage 2s. From 5500 to 6000 I lost about 3 whp... compared to 30+ before the swap.
The reason you can't get the "full" potential from a stage 2 cam isn't the head flow... its the RPM limit of the stock motor. The more agressive cam, the more it likes to rev, and you have a upper limit of around 6000-6200 RPM on a stock 2v rotating assembly.
As stated however, the differences in the two cams are so small that almost nobody could acutally spot them on a dyno. Were talking 3-5 WHP differences at any point here.. nothing signficant.
Look at the difference between the 2 and 1... its a very small difference cam spec wise:
.560/.575 lift 225/235 .050 duration, 108 LSA
540/550 lift 224/226 duration, 110 LSA
Were just making a mountain out of a molehill here. If you want a little more agressive idle and don't mind giving up a few FT/LBs on the low side get a stage 2. If you want every bit of TQ you can get plus a nice upgrade up top get the stage 1s.
I have a hunderd dollar bill that says that nobody could acutally get in a car, and without hearing the idle tell me just by accelration if it was a stage1 or 2 cam. Like I said, 3, maybe 5 whp difference at any point in the band... you cannot detect that on your butt dyno.
Its just NOT that big of a difference. Take two cars, one with a stage 1 and one with a stage 2, and run them on the same dyno and I gaurentee they DONT make 3-5 WHP different from each other at any point in the band.
So far as VT... they also have said numerous times that running a stage 2 n/a cam in a blower car will result in almost no boost being made and no power. Somehow, with their stage 2 n/a cam I am making almost 10 PSI@6000 RPM (on a cold day, warm day 9.5) with a stock 3.60 vortech pulley. The car made 420 WHP with just exhaust/cams/10PSI and no intercooler, with a very safe and conservative timing and a/f curve.
It just works man. I dunno what else to tell you. I made 280/292 on a total crap tune, with the TQ being lost because the a/f ratio was over 15:1 at 3000 RPM. The car had alot of timing pulled out of it and the a/f was off because the guy that tuned it was a pot smoking moron... and it still made 280 WHP.
6th Gear Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,726
From: Slidell, Louisiana
RE: Cam ?s
ORIGINAL: stangman1976
Let me ask this . Who has what cam and what are your hp & tq numbers with your mods?
Let me ask this . Who has what cam and what are your hp & tq numbers with your mods?
6th Gear Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,575
From: United States
RE: Cam ?s
My mods were BBK LTs, BBK o/r X, magnaflow catback, K&N, C&L MAF, C&L inlet tube, 70mm BBK t/b, C&L plenum, underdrive pulleys, 3.73 gears, and the VT stage 2 N/A camshafts.
On the total joke of a tune the car made 280.x and 290x on a dynojet 248c. I don't have a true before/after dyno because once again the tuner was a moron, the 2 curves on this pic are just the final (junk) tune and one that was made before that (still with the cams in). Car made 256/300 previously on the stock computer tune, but with the C&L MAF it was pretty close to being tuned anyway.. might have made 260ish WHP with a tune before the cams.
[IMG]local://upfiles/4605/31F84FC94F924F1BA1A706D7A54C93EA.jpg[/IMG]
Edit; Look at that freaking a/f curve! I still cannot beileve how terrible it was, this was after the guy has the car for over a month getting the cams in and getting tuned. What a joke. Yes, that is 15.2:1 a/f ratio up around 2000 RPM!
Even with the junk tune it still made 280 WHP. It was pulling timing up top and down low the a/f ratio is simply horrible, which is why the TQ is so low. With a good tune MPH told me this setup on the same dyno should have gone around 285/290 horsepower and 300-305 WTQ.
As stated, the stage 2 cams work FINE In a stock head car. Nothing funky with the curve and they make just as much or IMO a little more than a stage 1 cam. The best part is if you ever DO get ported heads and a new shortblock for more RPM they will better support you.
On the total joke of a tune the car made 280.x and 290x on a dynojet 248c. I don't have a true before/after dyno because once again the tuner was a moron, the 2 curves on this pic are just the final (junk) tune and one that was made before that (still with the cams in). Car made 256/300 previously on the stock computer tune, but with the C&L MAF it was pretty close to being tuned anyway.. might have made 260ish WHP with a tune before the cams.
[IMG]local://upfiles/4605/31F84FC94F924F1BA1A706D7A54C93EA.jpg[/IMG]
Edit; Look at that freaking a/f curve! I still cannot beileve how terrible it was, this was after the guy has the car for over a month getting the cams in and getting tuned. What a joke. Yes, that is 15.2:1 a/f ratio up around 2000 RPM!
Even with the junk tune it still made 280 WHP. It was pulling timing up top and down low the a/f ratio is simply horrible, which is why the TQ is so low. With a good tune MPH told me this setup on the same dyno should have gone around 285/290 horsepower and 300-305 WTQ.
As stated, the stage 2 cams work FINE In a stock head car. Nothing funky with the curve and they make just as much or IMO a little more than a stage 1 cam. The best part is if you ever DO get ported heads and a new shortblock for more RPM they will better support you.
5th Gear Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,821
From: The Great Northwest
RE: Cam ?s
ORIGINAL: Rader99GT
Hey. Sorry this isnt about the cams but i noticed you had the FRPP Aluminum Driveshaft... how do you like it? could you tell a difference?
Hey. Sorry this isnt about the cams but i noticed you had the FRPP Aluminum Driveshaft... how do you like it? could you tell a difference?
i have one as well, when i installed it i couldnt tell much but when i installed it with a lightweight flywheel they really compliment eachother. its FUN.