Are they trying to sucker me?
10-01-2010, 08:16 PM
#61
2nd Gear Member
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 246
lol come on CT_white stang... them headers and x pipe are gonna mess me up huh.. i had no idea have a supercharged car was this crazy. I bought the car already supercharged. dag.. its kind of a headache when it comes to adding stuff.. I see that now. lol
10-02-2010, 12:06 PM
#62
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NC
Posts: 1,481
I personally would not tell someone that they absolutely should drive without a tune(especially if I had any possible liability for my words), but there are circumstances where it can be done without trouble.
10-02-2010, 01:07 PM
#63
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 246
I wish I had come to this site before I ordered all those parts.. 4 or 5 Bud lights deep and I was like fu-c it imma order some parts.. lol Now that I've got them I have spent all this money and by the time I pay for chip and getting it tuned i will have around 2200 dollars invested in only 20 more hp.. doesn't seem to bright... I woulda been better off buy an alcohol injection kit for 500 and spending the 550 on a tune for that.. saved hundreds and had way more then 20 hp.. Seriously considering sending all thist stuff back and going that route.
10-02-2010, 01:07 PM
#64
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Virginia
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Anyone know if those alky kits are legit?? www.alkycontrol.com is where I was suggested to get one. and do they really add close to 100 Hp
10-03-2010, 09:04 AM
#66
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Posts: 3,189
god i hate it when people use pictures that big cliff :-/
well its like you said, they don't mention if they repulleyed for boost or not.
also, kenne bells website at one point did not say "longtubes are a waste of money". it used to say not to use longtube headers with their canned tune because the car will no longer be safe to drive. so how can you say that headers do nothing to improve performance when they alter their conservative tune that significantly? anything that requires you to retune, obviously had some measurable affect without even needing a dyno graph to back it up. kenne bell was tired of people blowing their motors blaming it on their tune and crying for a new motor (this exact scenario happened to a member here 6 months to a year ago, i remember posting on his thread). if you tell people not to do something, they will still do it. if you tell them its a waste of 1000$, they won't. i would love to see a before and after that only gives a few hp at midrange and nothing up top. longtubes dont even add any hp at low or midrange. it isnt until you get past 3k that they get power, and by redline they have ~20hp over stockers. so i dont even get why you said they only show a gain at midrange, they don't. SHORTIES show a very high gain at low-midrange (~20hp over stockers) but by redline there is maybe 3hp better over manifolds. they behave the exact opposite.
using longtubes to inflate numbers on a blown car is a dumb idea anyways. with them on, the stock numbers are higher so the gain doesnt look as impressive. to get gain after the blower, you have to repulley. your no longer advertising the gains of your 6psi kit or whatever, your advertising the gains of your 6psi kit, longtubes, and a smaller pulley. and if you have the longtubes on before the blower, then your gains are actually going to show less. if you run the same hp after longtubes without repulleying, then you start with 240hp instead of 220, and end up at the same number.
Give me a reason why they would put headers down? If headers gave a really high improvement in their application, dont you think that they would put headers on their test car to inflate numbers? I bet that Kenne Bell car did not pulley down to increase boost to where it was. Like I said, the gain on a supercharged car is going to be from pulleying down to regain the boost lost from the longtubes, and in this case, the longtubes and the intake manifold and tb/plenum combo. Thats where this car is going to pick up power. But all else being the same, OP is gonna be lucky to see more power. He will see equal power at less boost, but not more power. Gotta change the pulley to see more power.
also, kenne bells website at one point did not say "longtubes are a waste of money". it used to say not to use longtube headers with their canned tune because the car will no longer be safe to drive. so how can you say that headers do nothing to improve performance when they alter their conservative tune that significantly? anything that requires you to retune, obviously had some measurable affect without even needing a dyno graph to back it up. kenne bell was tired of people blowing their motors blaming it on their tune and crying for a new motor (this exact scenario happened to a member here 6 months to a year ago, i remember posting on his thread). if you tell people not to do something, they will still do it. if you tell them its a waste of 1000$, they won't. i would love to see a before and after that only gives a few hp at midrange and nothing up top. longtubes dont even add any hp at low or midrange. it isnt until you get past 3k that they get power, and by redline they have ~20hp over stockers. so i dont even get why you said they only show a gain at midrange, they don't. SHORTIES show a very high gain at low-midrange (~20hp over stockers) but by redline there is maybe 3hp better over manifolds. they behave the exact opposite.
using longtubes to inflate numbers on a blown car is a dumb idea anyways. with them on, the stock numbers are higher so the gain doesnt look as impressive. to get gain after the blower, you have to repulley. your no longer advertising the gains of your 6psi kit or whatever, your advertising the gains of your 6psi kit, longtubes, and a smaller pulley. and if you have the longtubes on before the blower, then your gains are actually going to show less. if you run the same hp after longtubes without repulleying, then you start with 240hp instead of 220, and end up at the same number.
Last edited by MU71L4710N; 10-03-2010 at 09:06 AM.
10-03-2010, 11:10 AM
#67
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Virginia
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Mu7 yes im intercooled.. Im really confused now.. after reading all of you alls suggestions im really considering sending everything back and going some other route. Any ideas on how to get more HP out of my car for $2000 dollars? Thats kinda my price range right now. (Paxton novi 2000 blower, Paxton intercooler, borla cat-back exhaust) thats basically all my car has for power additives.. I have 3.73 gears.. Im clueless.. I mean is the next step to get significant gains going inside the motor??
10-03-2010, 11:57 AM
#68
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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Posts: 3,189
ok well first off how much HP are you putting down? 400whp is about the limit your gonna want to run on a stock bottom end GT. also, how much boost are you running right now? somewhere around 10 is about what you want to stay at, more than that your asking for it.
the throttle body and a new midpipe i would install. without knowing your HP numbers and boost levels its hard to say what else would be wise, if anything, since you havent listed that. if you aren't boosting much right now, a smaller blower pulley that would put you at 10lbs would be good. and you will absolutely have to have a tune before you boost with a new pulley, just to go ahead and say it since you always ask. smaller pulley = more air with the same amount of fuel. that = lean = blown motor. a new midpipe and blower pulley will be like 250 bucks and you can sell the typhoon headers and shorty midpipe and even come out not spending much money.
after reaching 400whp, there really isnt anything else you can do power wise. you can either start saving for a forged motor, or you spend it on suspension goodies (which will make your car faster, but no hp added).
the throttle body and a new midpipe i would install. without knowing your HP numbers and boost levels its hard to say what else would be wise, if anything, since you havent listed that. if you aren't boosting much right now, a smaller blower pulley that would put you at 10lbs would be good. and you will absolutely have to have a tune before you boost with a new pulley, just to go ahead and say it since you always ask. smaller pulley = more air with the same amount of fuel. that = lean = blown motor. a new midpipe and blower pulley will be like 250 bucks and you can sell the typhoon headers and shorty midpipe and even come out not spending much money.
after reaching 400whp, there really isnt anything else you can do power wise. you can either start saving for a forged motor, or you spend it on suspension goodies (which will make your car faster, but no hp added).
Last edited by MU71L4710N; 10-03-2010 at 12:00 PM.
10-03-2010, 01:22 PM
#69
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 246
My car is any where from 8 to 10 lbs. of boost..It dynoed like 390HP. I had thought about keeping the throttle body.. But the bad part is just that one part wont add to much and i will have to spend 400 tune + 282 for SCT.. So im looking at alot of money just to bolt on the throttle body..If I were to forge the motor later the throttle body would come in handy? I could hang on to the throttle body for a while without installing it and when and if i do the forged motor it will be worth adding then caue i will have to do the tune and buy a sct. Any idea how much money is involved when ur looking into building a forged motor? and if I was at like 20 lbs. of boost any type of idea what the HP would be? one of my close friends actually owns and runs a machine shope. So i could get the hook up on that end. I had the option of building my car or buying another motorcycle. I wanted to turn my car into a beast. I thought the bolt ons all at once would.. but i see now it realy isnt..
10-03-2010, 03:29 PM
#70
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