1990lxhatch

I'd like to mention that it's obvious a lot of folks in this discussion and the #8 piston failure/TSB discussions aren't truly aware of how warranty repair decisions are made and furthermore don't know all the specifics and circumstances surrounding the cases mentioned on this board. You know only what the owner was told or assumed and furthermore what they decided to post. As much as I'd like to believe there is a big evil company out there cranking out junk and duping every schmuck dumb enough to buy their junk..... There are two sides to every story...

Your dealer can repair whatever they want under warranty.... whether or not the manufacturer reimburses said claim is a different story so don't talk about how "its all about the dealer". Furthermore, I can't imagine a warranty denial that DOESN'T escalate to a point where an engineer is involved. At that point there is no need to worry about how a claim will be handled. Whatever the rep from the maker concludes is gospel unless it becomes a legal battle. He can expose a crooked dealer or vindicate one that's suspect.

No dealer is out there to completely take advantage of their customers like this, no car maker in their right mind (especially one that's been around for 110 years) is going to risk a mutany among the largest sport car segment in the world and the reason this isn't a big PR deal like the Nissan GTR is because it's legit. It's not only legit, the TSB doesn't mention anything that hasn't always been part of Ford's (and nearly every other car maker on the planet) standard warranty policy. It's simply a notice to techs that says "Hey, you're probably going to see some modded 5.0's SURPRISE!. This is what we see to engines when mods popular for this car cause damage. By the way, this isn't something to submit under warranty. Actually, do us a solid and let us know about it so we can save some time for the dealer down the road when the customer gets all pissy and wants to try to blow smoke up someone elses ****"

Sometimes I think I'm the only person who's ever read an owner's manual or understands how a smart business wouldn't hold themselves responsible for crap I could have done? Hell I work for their competition, I'd love to see this blow up....only thing is.....there is no powder keg. It's a rubber ducky.

I must admit that the cowboy expert engine builder knowledge in here is funny at times. I know there are guys that know their stuff on here so this comment isn't a blanket....but are you really that thick to not understand how a single cylinder failure isn't necessarily a manufacturing defect? Hell, the pistons aren't even cylinder specific. They go in the grade hole their made for, they aren't cast for that specific cylinder. The damage from detonation and ring land damage arent from two different scenarios. Obviously, the peppering is from detonation and this spikes the cylinder pressures and can cause melted pistons if it's real severe and/or cause ring land damage if it's minor. You can detonate like crazy running 8:1 with the wrong ignition timing but I can also run 18:1 and not ping once with the right ignition timing. I think it's a combination of heat and spark (from tunes)...but all you can do is speculate.

I'd imagine a 400hp all aluminum motor with wideband 02's, VCT on both cams and ignition modifiers for each cylinder might be a bit sensitive to detonation. If what they say about the knock sensor not picking up #8 well is true I'd also imagine the factory tune has some sort of ignition trim for #8 to compensate for KS input. Do these tuners have anywhere near the amount of R&D and teardown evals that the factory does? Doubt it. I'm sure they know what they're doing but a new motor is a new motor. I'm willing to bet Ford knows it's limits and soft spots better than anyone else. Plus, I'm sure there is a little bit of the ol rear bank two heat soak deal that the 4v motors had....the heat just killed valve guides instead of ring lands. Same situation though, end of the water path and not a lot of cool air above a header between a bulkhead and a brake booster.

When I buy mine, I think I'll enjoy 59,999 miles of no-hassle coverage before I risk a $10K repair with a few thousand in 50hp mods. I guess I'm irresponsible though

Maraman

@1990

I'm having a hard time making sense out of your argument here because you contradict yourself left and right..are you anti or pro-mod under warranty?

You say dont talk about "its all about the dealer" when in fact it is. The dealer examines your car to determine whether or not its modded and whether or not they will repair it under warranty. Whether or not the manufacturor will reimburse the dealer for said warranty work isn't our (the consumer) problem. That is why dealer 1 may repair your piston ring #8 failure with a supercharger under warranty, and dealer 2 may not repair the same with cold air and a tune. Its the dealers decision, not ours. The dealer is suppose to prove the mod is what caused the problem with your vehicle, but that is another argument.

and at your last comment, enjoying 59,999 miles of no hassle coverage making you irresponsible? I'm assuming that your referring to the warranty? I could be wrong but wouldn't that make you responsible by not modding because that is what the dealer wants. Just because you may not want to mod your car for 59,999 miles to enjoy the full extent of the warranty does not mean that all of the other thousands of 5.0 owners want to do the same.

As for me I have 3 years/36K miles on my warranty, and I had exhaust and wheels waiting in my living room a week before delivery of my car.

JIM5.0

Marman is right. You are contradicting yourself a bit.
To me, the TSB offers the dealerships the excuse to downright deny any warranty just at the sight of the slightest mod. Nowhere in that TSB does it say "This is just a heads up, modded cars will come in for warranty work." Nowhere in that TSB does it say it is this benign.

It is a written script from Ford to give permission to dealerships to deny warranty coverage outright for any mods.

I do agree about responsibility, if you mod your car, especially if you mod it beyond Ford engineering failure specs, and you break something, you should pay for it, not Ford or the dealerships. The "you pay to play" argument.

However, I am totally pro-modding especially if the mod is not excessive and does not throw the OEM parts into conditions that are beyond designed failure points.

But if one wants to be responsible and not mod for warranty purposes, the most responsible thing is not just hold off modding to 5/60K, that would be not mod at all.

AMDanBailer

^^This^^^ what is the difference between modding now and possibly voiding a warranty and having fun with the car, versus waiting until the warranty is up when you are responsible for ALL repairs anyway?

I mean, with our warranty covering 3/36K miles you would be really silly to wait and force yourself to be responsible for any repairs, regardless.


just my $.02

Derf00

All I can say is I'm glad that an aftermarket modder is willing to put their reputation and quality of work on the line by overlapping with the OEM warranty should there be any dispute with the OEM of fault/reponsibility.

Now, if ford can just resolve the tranny issue, I'm gettin a 5.0 and going to AM for my mods!

P.S. with regard to the #8 failure in general. I agree with 1990 that the OEM knows more about the design tolerances of the motor than anyone else (they did after all design it). Some of you know about the #8 cyclinder issues with the 2003/2004 Cobra's because of an oversight in the cooling system. That was resolved with an aftermarket crossover tube that increased the cooling efficiency to that region of the motor.

Anyways, there's some hidden stuff in the tunning and design from Ford, that's a given. Look at the Ghost cam tune that was revealed aftermarket and quickly lost support from Ford.

The #8 cylinder could possibly be a design flaw (or disregarded for now until the next gen 5.0 (direct injection???) comes out that will address it. Anyways, this is pure speculation and the source is questionable but I don't have any other pictures of the 5.0 Head at the moment.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...1-mustang-5-0/

hand-filer

With all due respect, your warranty only covers the failure of cylinder #8. If anything else frags and Ford deems the cause of the failure to be your tune, the owner of said tune would be hooped.
Not much of a warranty IMHO.

devildog1679

Still more than any other tuner shop. Got to give credit where it's due.

hand-filer

I'll give them that.

1990lxhatch

I didn't contradict myself at all, the comment about responsibility was sarcasm... I meant the responsible way to mod and not worry about warranty implication would be to mod after the warranty expired. Just because you as an owner didn't pay for service doesn't mean it was warranty. Warranty is through Ford motor not Bobs Ford store. Goodwill and internalized work are not warranty regardless of how you choose to look at it. The tsb doesn't change Fords warranty policy AT ALL. I'm not stating opinion, this is fact. The tsb is a notification and expressed direction. The dealer doesn't have to prove anything unless they are taken to court in which case Ford will take the heat because they as a manufacturer determine if warranty reimbursement is applicable...so really, if anyone had to prove anything it would be Ford. You know how simple that case is though? Engine damage + mods + owners manual that says damage applicable to alterations are not covered = you pay for repairs.

Maraman

@ 1990

yes, I completely agree