Every time I look at this thread title I keep getting the song Freebird in my head!

 

I talked to Mark (From Scarebird) today and he told me they are in the stages of a new design that will allow the use of the originial 14 inch style wheel. all i know is that the new design now uses Buick Park Avenue Calipers and ford rotors. Not sure when they will be released just yet.

 

There seems to be some question as to the validity of our product. I will answer. We have only had one complaint with this setup- the guy thought he was getting a whole kit- rotors, calipers, etc for 85 dollars. Everybody else was satisfied; what else can I say?

A few technical issues-

Proportioning valves- some feel that if you run a disc front car, you must run a dedicated prop valve. Not a bad idea, but few realise that most prop valves are the same, and are calibrated for 70-72 Chevelles. Mustangs, Challengers, etc. do not share the same weight characteristics as a Chevelle. As you can see, a 1965-66 Mustang, even with front disc, had a SINGLE chamber master cylinder.

Evidently, Ford, never one for excessive engineering, thought one chamber with a simple distribution block was all that was needed- till the DOT forced all manufacturers to go dual n 1967. Some of our customers, like the 1955-57 Pontiac guys, just run the under the floor single, as fitting a dual with booster is a major PITA- and lived to tell the tale. They tell me it stops much better than the 12" drums, and with no premature rear lockup (which is what the prop valve is for to begin with). Most cars are balanced enough in there front/rear piston bias that a combo valve is not necessary for safe operation. Race cars use an adjustable unit to the rear, as do some aftermarket rear disc (mine included). They stop very well.

20 trips to the parts store- Not quite. There are a few issues that plague this conversion- aand it is none of our doing. Disc and drum master cylinders use different fittings... 1/2-20 and 3/8-24 for the disc (NAPA 336251) and 9/16-18 and 1/2-20 (NAPA 36226) for the drum. So unless Degins provides you with new hardlines, you will need to do some reflaring and maybe some rebending too. Our business model demands that every piece except our brackets be purchasable from a NAPA or Autozone. Some all-in-one kits sold have custom rotors or master cylinders, such as the CPP dual prop valve unit. We shy away from that.

 

Scarebird,

My remarks are not intended as a criticism of your product. You have obiously put a lot of thought into them. We serve different markets. The "20 trips" comment had to do with the posters naive attitude that a swap consist of a set of brackets, rotors, and calipers.

There are a lot of small parts that need to be identified, located, and installed.


Your comment that all combo valves are calibrated to Chevelle is correct only for the Master Brake GM type. I sell a new Combo valve calibrated for 70 Mustang. I don't believe that the OEM versions differed very much from year to year and model to model. The same Combo valve was used on a no option 6 cylinder 69 Mustang as was used used on a big block fully loaded 69 Mustang.

If your position is that a single pot MC is good enough, or that a PV is not needed, I don't agree. 65-67 KH disc brake equipped Mustang had PV valves.

 

Degins, naive?? not hardly. I've been working on cars long enough to know that what you initially will need to do the job, rarely holds up. Maybe call it optimism, but not being naive. Besides, all of us on here have obviously dreamed at some point and had high hopes of having the classic cars that we have today, so why not think optimistic. But you do have a valid point, a conversion kit is simply not rotors, calipers, and brackets. always some misc. hardware to track down, but 20 trips? it wouldnt take a blind man 20 trips.

 

First off, I will not put GM parts on my Mustang. Secondly, the single bowl MC for a disk up front car has the same problems as does a single bowl MC for a drum/drum car. It a line breaks, you are out of brakes, either up front or on back. And, the PV is necessary to keep the rear brakes from locking up from too much pressure. It cannot be left off if you want a safe car. So, obviouly, I will not buy a Scarebird kit for my car.

 

i second that. my FORD will be built with FORD parts.

plus, drum/drum, disc/drum, disc/disc, you'd be crazy not to involve a PV as to keep the car from taking a nose dive, locking out the rear or not getting enough power. it's a bitch to tune if you haven't done it a million times, but worth all the trouble.

as per the "a 1965-66 Mustang, even with front disc, had a SINGLE chamber master cylinder", i beg to differ. my 66 has a dual bowl MC with all wheel drum. i'm not fully educated in brake systems of yesteryear, but i think someone may have given you the wrong part. here's a pic of mine.

[IMG]local://upfiles/33080/34B1063EEE23454F98FE4818C0D1D0F7.jpg[/IMG]

and further more, a lot of people do a v8 swap in combination with the disc conv. and as far as i have been instructed, the spindles must be replaced (even at that, they are 40 years old, it couldn't hurt to replace them). personally, and i'm not saying your product is bad, or the price tag doesn't intrigue me, i think i'll be going with the other company, mainly because they are the only company i have found offering this conversion, who can sell me new spindles.

 

Someone has already converted yours.

 

okay, i stand corrected. my appoligies.

 

Points made, no problem!

My vision is to make the brake swap easy, not just inexpensive. It is my experience, and not just with auto mechanics, that all things are harder to do than first thought. I've observed that MANY projects, started with enthusiasm, get mired in detail and are never completed. I would find it a personal failure if my kit ends up uninstalled in my customers garage. My pledge is to keep inproving the value and content of the kit. Those of you that desire high performance MAY be disappointed, but those of you that want basic good value and performance will be pleased.