Classic Mustangs (Tech) Technical discussions about the Mustangs of yester-year.

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Old Mar 28, 2007 | 11:22 PM
  #21  
easttennmotors's Avatar
easttennmotors
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Default RE: 302

ORIGINAL: Norm Peterson

ORIGINAL: easttennmotors
thats why in my post i said road racestyleoil pan and windage tray
Those are important, but are usedsolve the somewhat different issues of controlling the oil once it gets back into the sump. If you're going to pump the oil up topat a faster rate, you need to do something to ensure that it can drain backdown more easily. Otherwise, the pump can actually cause the very problems that it is supposed to be preventing. The basic sump design itself has little effect on how fast it refills.

Removing casting flash and radiusing the entrances to the drainback holes in the block and in the heads are the sorts of things that need attention.

A HV pump does have at least one "saving grace", though. If you do happen to experience lobe/lifter surface failure the extra flow available will help sustain the pressure and help prevent more extensive damage from occurring (BTDT, actually). You can take this to mean that there is no need for a HV pump if you're running a roller cam.


Norm
when i get my blocks machined i will usually radius oil drain holesbut i like high volume pumps because i use solid lifter cams in all my engines and even stamped steel rockers in some where the customer wants to stay period correct or the racing they do needsstamped rockersas a rule so i usually need a pretty good bit of oil up top in my valve train that is why i like the high volume pumps, that was my bad for not stating how i usually put things together the way i do, i dont believe however that small blocks have a big oil drain problem as i have never experienced it with a small block ford before or had any small block hv pump problems, but i in the engines i build swear by road race pans, windage trays and hv pumps...
Old Mar 28, 2007 | 11:27 PM
  #22  
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Norm Peterson
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Joined: Feb 2007
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From: state of confusion
Default RE: 302

ORIGINAL: Aussie66Fastback

Norm, thats how I understood the race pans to work as well, but i thoughtthe reason they have wings and hold extra oil is because all the baffling etc slows the rate of flow back into the pan.
True, at least to some extent. Road race pan baffling is intended to slow down the migration of oil away from the pickup while cornering. Unless I'm mistaken, most use a trapdoor arrangement that opens easily in the direction that allows flow toward the pickup and consequently don't represent a whole lot of restriction in that direction.

Under cornering, the free surface of the oil in the sump will become sloping, which can add depth over the pickup when the inboard wing empties into the center but can't proceedthrough the closed trapdoors on the outboard side.

The problem is still that of getting the oil to flow down through the engine once it's been pumped up there. A 90° V8 suffers in this respectmore than most other engines due to its bank angle, as that puts each bank at 45° from the vertical. Under sustained extreme cornering in the same direction, say 1.0 lateral g (and assuming zero roll), the lateral acceleration exactly balances gravity and there will be nothing left to encourage the oil to flow downward toward the pan from one of the two banks. Translation: under sustained extreme cornering, one bank may not drain at all (or the flow may evenbe UP the drainback) until you straighten out, so you really need to get the oil from the other side back downstairs.

Fortunately, sustained max-g cornering in one direction isn't a problem in street driving. But even at autocross,some of the more experienced people and/or those withV8 cars having more extensive chassispreparation will overfill the sump slightly as an extra measure of insurance against momentary loss of suction/pressure. DOT "R-compound" tires and even so-called "Street Touring" tires such as Falken Azenis are capable of better than 1g lateral grip . . .

On edit: easttenn - I completely understand where you're coming from, and it's about the best that can be done given the customer/racing class restrictions. I'd do the same.


Norm

A couple of edits to clean up the wording . . .
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