Vibration
Thread Starter
4th Gear Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,676
From: Goodyear, AZ
So i talked to a guy that specializes in T5's. He said that if the lower carrier is worn then the car will start to vibrate at about 1500 rpms. he said that the input shaft and the lower carriers are always rotating wether or not the car is moving, stopped, or with the clutch in or out.!
he said that since the trans is out i might as well let him check it out. He said for $50 he will tear it apart and tell me what if there is something wrong. Id i need to replace the bearings for it they are $10 a piece and there is 2 of them.
So for $70 i may solve the prob. If its not the carriers then i am only really out $50 and i will know that the used T5 i am running is solid.
he said that since the trans is out i might as well let him check it out. He said for $50 he will tear it apart and tell me what if there is something wrong. Id i need to replace the bearings for it they are $10 a piece and there is 2 of them.
So for $70 i may solve the prob. If its not the carriers then i am only really out $50 and i will know that the used T5 i am running is solid.
6th Gear Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,212
From: Hills of California
what the hell is a lower carrier?
Its safe to say that the input shaft is always spinning under certain conditions but with the clutch in its really not engaged and I doubt its RPM is equal to the engine RPM as it would be "windmilling" Its rotating because its connected to the pilot bearing which has a very small amount of drag on it AND its connected to the clutch disc which get bushed against the flywheel and pressure plate which adds a very slight amount of torqure to rotate in input shaft....but this only occurs when the car is in neutral AND the clutch is in
Jack the rear end off the ground so both rear tires are free and put jack stands on the axle housings. Start the car, Put it in gear and push in the clutch...Do the rear wheels rotate.. If everything is working perfect they should NOT...and guess what speed the input shaft is spinning....0 RPM.
If the wheels rotate In gear with the clutch IN they should do so very slowly and placing a hand on them should stop the rotation with little effort. In this case the input shaft would indeed be rotating due to the above mentioned drag on the disc and input shaft.
AND finally input shaft does not weight enough to cause the car to vibrate at 1500-2000 rpm even if it were fully engaged. If the car is vibrating with the clutch In at ZERO MPH the I am pretty sure the shop ****ed something up IF its not an imbalanced pressure plate (not likely)
Again..what the hell is that lower carrier that the shop talked about?
-Gun
Ps I guess what im saying is your T5 "expert" sounds like a bit of a tosser.
Its safe to say that the input shaft is always spinning under certain conditions but with the clutch in its really not engaged and I doubt its RPM is equal to the engine RPM as it would be "windmilling" Its rotating because its connected to the pilot bearing which has a very small amount of drag on it AND its connected to the clutch disc which get bushed against the flywheel and pressure plate which adds a very slight amount of torqure to rotate in input shaft....but this only occurs when the car is in neutral AND the clutch is in
Jack the rear end off the ground so both rear tires are free and put jack stands on the axle housings. Start the car, Put it in gear and push in the clutch...Do the rear wheels rotate.. If everything is working perfect they should NOT...and guess what speed the input shaft is spinning....0 RPM.
If the wheels rotate In gear with the clutch IN they should do so very slowly and placing a hand on them should stop the rotation with little effort. In this case the input shaft would indeed be rotating due to the above mentioned drag on the disc and input shaft.
AND finally input shaft does not weight enough to cause the car to vibrate at 1500-2000 rpm even if it were fully engaged. If the car is vibrating with the clutch In at ZERO MPH the I am pretty sure the shop ****ed something up IF its not an imbalanced pressure plate (not likely)
Again..what the hell is that lower carrier that the shop talked about?
-Gun
Ps I guess what im saying is your T5 "expert" sounds like a bit of a tosser.
Last edited by Gun Jam; Feb 7, 2010 at 10:40 PM.
Thread Starter
4th Gear Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,676
From: Goodyear, AZ
from what i understand it would be # 82 and 85 on this diagram for the non world class
http://www.tbtrans.com/t5_transmission.htm
http://www.tbtrans.com/t5_transmission.htm
6th Gear Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,212
From: Hills of California
I know those bearings kinda.
They would make it shift crappy or run noisy if they were bad. I seriously doubt they could cause a vibration.
The trans input shaft touches and or is connected to the engine by ONLY 3 things. imagine the clutch disc as being welded to the input shaft so they are a single unit (This is the job on the splines on the input shaft) Together they touch: 1)the pressure plate (backside of clutch) 2) flywheel (on the front side of the clutch) 3) pilot bearing very front end of input shaft.
When the car is on the ground ZERO MPH and IN gear essentially the input shaft ALLL the way to the pinion gear in the rearend is solid shaft. If the wheels aren't turning the pinion gear in the rearend is not turning then the input shaft cannot be turning and nothing in the transmission can be turning (im like 99.5% sure of this) I doubt im missing anything.
Im just thinking maybe they are trying to weasel out of at least checking to see if they balanced it right.
You could always pull the trans off of the bell housing and start it up just to prove it. I dont think the clutch disc would shift because it would be squashed in place by the pressure plate but it MIGHT....I cant say for sure...so this might be a bad idea.
-Gun
They would make it shift crappy or run noisy if they were bad. I seriously doubt they could cause a vibration.
The trans input shaft touches and or is connected to the engine by ONLY 3 things. imagine the clutch disc as being welded to the input shaft so they are a single unit (This is the job on the splines on the input shaft) Together they touch: 1)the pressure plate (backside of clutch) 2) flywheel (on the front side of the clutch) 3) pilot bearing very front end of input shaft.
When the car is on the ground ZERO MPH and IN gear essentially the input shaft ALLL the way to the pinion gear in the rearend is solid shaft. If the wheels aren't turning the pinion gear in the rearend is not turning then the input shaft cannot be turning and nothing in the transmission can be turning (im like 99.5% sure of this) I doubt im missing anything.
Im just thinking maybe they are trying to weasel out of at least checking to see if they balanced it right.
You could always pull the trans off of the bell housing and start it up just to prove it. I dont think the clutch disc would shift because it would be squashed in place by the pressure plate but it MIGHT....I cant say for sure...so this might be a bad idea.
-Gun
Thread Starter
4th Gear Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,676
From: Goodyear, AZ
Gun
They guys that built my motor are not the ones that asked me to check my trans. That is something that i am doing on my own. I hvae it out right now because i just did a 8.8 swap and i wanted to replace the front and rear seals whle the car was aart. I just thought i would do somemore digging so i would be thorough. I dont want to overlook anything at this point.
So i called this guy that lives by me who is a t5 rebuilder and started asking questions. All he does is T5 work. he said it is possible that the vibe is coming from the trans. So i figured for the cheap price i might as well have him tear it apart and check.
They guys that built my motor are not the ones that asked me to check my trans. That is something that i am doing on my own. I hvae it out right now because i just did a 8.8 swap and i wanted to replace the front and rear seals whle the car was aart. I just thought i would do somemore digging so i would be thorough. I dont want to overlook anything at this point.
So i called this guy that lives by me who is a t5 rebuilder and started asking questions. All he does is T5 work. he said it is possible that the vibe is coming from the trans. So i figured for the cheap price i might as well have him tear it apart and check.
6th Gear Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,212
From: Hills of California
Oh okay...it sounded like the engine shop was trying to divert your attention to something else...And Im still not convinced the t5 guy has his wits about him. Maybe he misunderstood the question about input shaft rotation... That's a very basic concept and if indeed he can't grasp that perhaps another shop is in order.
If you are feeling froggy. Take the top cover off and post high quality photos here and we can give you idea of gear and blocker wear.
to take the top cover off:
remove shifter
shift trans to N
Drive pin out of the metal block that shifter arm fit into
remove bolts from tailshaft housing
slide tail shaft housing off along with the block (there is a single spring and ball bearing under that block bag them up along with the block and bolts)
Remove top cover bolts
Slide top cover horizontally about .75 inch then lift up. (you might have to pry up to break silicone seal first)
Take photos of gear clusters from all angles. If you cant get clear photos then dont worry about taking the top cover off.
-Gun
If you are feeling froggy. Take the top cover off and post high quality photos here and we can give you idea of gear and blocker wear.
to take the top cover off:
remove shifter
shift trans to N
Drive pin out of the metal block that shifter arm fit into
remove bolts from tailshaft housing
slide tail shaft housing off along with the block (there is a single spring and ball bearing under that block bag them up along with the block and bolts)
Remove top cover bolts
Slide top cover horizontally about .75 inch then lift up. (you might have to pry up to break silicone seal first)
Take photos of gear clusters from all angles. If you cant get clear photos then dont worry about taking the top cover off.
-Gun
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