'65 289 vs newer 302
05-08-2011, 08:02 PM
#11
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,027
I believe there is an 11 hp difference in the 302 with the same build as the 289. There should be a slightly better torque rating for the 302 as well.
Everything depends on your budget. Some 289's have a 5 bolt bell housing, 302's have a 6 bolt. If you do a 5 speed conversion and you have a 289 bell housing then you will have to have an adapter plate.
You are doing the right thing by asking a lot of questions. One thing I have learned from my conversion is that you must have everything well planned before you start putting it all together.
Everything depends on your budget. Some 289's have a 5 bolt bell housing, 302's have a 6 bolt. If you do a 5 speed conversion and you have a 289 bell housing then you will have to have an adapter plate.
You are doing the right thing by asking a lot of questions. One thing I have learned from my conversion is that you must have everything well planned before you start putting it all together.
Synth is right, plan everything then plan it again.
Last edited by mr_velocity; 05-08-2011 at 08:13 PM.
05-09-2011, 01:28 PM
#12
1st Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Location: FL
Posts: 59
Despite my intent to hold off and work out exactly which motor i was going to go with and what approach / parts i would use my brother in law took action this morning on his way to work. He saw a guy parting out a 89 mustang gt and so he worked out a deal with him to take the 5.0 HO, a set of headers, engine stand, and all the accessories (alternator, etc) off his hands for 200 bucks. So I went down and took a look at it and figured that it was a pretty good deal so i figured i would just go ahead and work my build around this new HO 302.
I did a little research on the HO and it seem the only differences are the cam, firing order, and different upper/lower intakes, correct? Also does this mean that i can use parts for a regular 302 in this motor without fear of incorrect fit or operation, or do i need to get parts specific to an HO 5.0?
Now as far as the cam in this motor goes, is it that much of an upgrade over a stock 302 that i wouldnt need to look into getting a new one if im only after 325-350 hp? In addition, would it make sense to leave the efi on the motor or do you all think a carb is the way to go (seems to me setting up a 65 mustang to handle an efi would be a pain)? Can i even convert this particular motor to a carb if i wanted to (would i just need a new intake manifold that fit my motor and whatever carb i was after?)? And would having a carb eliminate my need for all/most of the wiring that seems to be running along the top of the engine? Because that sure seems simpler and easier to handle...
As far as inexpensive and simple to produce power goes i would probably follow along the lines of 2+2GT's suggestion and go after 302 counterparts to his 289 suggestion:
• Edelbrock Performer RPM intake manifold
• Edelbrock (or Summit ) 600 cfm carb
• 289HP air cleaner
• Stock distributor recurved to BOSS 302 specs
• C9OZ-6250-C hydraulic version of the 289HP cam
• Stock iron heads port-matched to the exhaust
What do you guys think?
I did a little research on the HO and it seem the only differences are the cam, firing order, and different upper/lower intakes, correct? Also does this mean that i can use parts for a regular 302 in this motor without fear of incorrect fit or operation, or do i need to get parts specific to an HO 5.0?
Now as far as the cam in this motor goes, is it that much of an upgrade over a stock 302 that i wouldnt need to look into getting a new one if im only after 325-350 hp? In addition, would it make sense to leave the efi on the motor or do you all think a carb is the way to go (seems to me setting up a 65 mustang to handle an efi would be a pain)? Can i even convert this particular motor to a carb if i wanted to (would i just need a new intake manifold that fit my motor and whatever carb i was after?)? And would having a carb eliminate my need for all/most of the wiring that seems to be running along the top of the engine? Because that sure seems simpler and easier to handle...
As far as inexpensive and simple to produce power goes i would probably follow along the lines of 2+2GT's suggestion and go after 302 counterparts to his 289 suggestion:
• Edelbrock Performer RPM intake manifold
• Edelbrock (or Summit ) 600 cfm carb
• 289HP air cleaner
• Stock distributor recurved to BOSS 302 specs
• C9OZ-6250-C hydraulic version of the 289HP cam
• Stock iron heads port-matched to the exhaust
What do you guys think?
05-09-2011, 01:46 PM
#14
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Smyrna, TN
Posts: 678
$200 is a great deal if the engine is good, you could probably recoupe that + by selling the EFI stuff if you don't use it. Carb vs. EFI is usually a preference choice, you *might* see 1-2mpg better with the EFI if that concerns you any. You will need to learn the wiring/sensors/etc. to know if you have it hooked up right and I don't know what you could do to hide the wires. You'll need the computer, MAF,etc. to make it run right. Looks are prefernce also, do you want the classic carb/air cleaner look or the EFI dogbone look.
You can bolt on an intake/carb in place of all the EFI stuff. The foxbody headers will not fit with our shocktowers, try to sell them on CL. You should be able to swap everything off your block onto the roller. Be careful which timing chain/gears/eccentric/timing cover you use as there are 2 hts. and can hit the back of the timing cover. There is no provision for a mech. fuel pump on the roller TC as it uses an electric pump at the tank. You'll also have to do a return line, etc. for EFI. Do a search for EFI swap and there are dozens of posts on it being done before to see what you will need.
Jon
You can bolt on an intake/carb in place of all the EFI stuff. The foxbody headers will not fit with our shocktowers, try to sell them on CL. You should be able to swap everything off your block onto the roller. Be careful which timing chain/gears/eccentric/timing cover you use as there are 2 hts. and can hit the back of the timing cover. There is no provision for a mech. fuel pump on the roller TC as it uses an electric pump at the tank. You'll also have to do a return line, etc. for EFI. Do a search for EFI swap and there are dozens of posts on it being done before to see what you will need.
Jon
05-09-2011, 01:50 PM
#15
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,692
In order to run the EFI, you should get the computer and wiring harness from the '89. Personally, I'd go carb but I don't want to get into a pi$$ing match with the EFI guys, I just think EFI looks wrong on a classic. But, it's not my car so you should do what you think is best.
Since the motor is already a roller cam, I'd stick with that and call a reputable cam maker and describe what you are looking for out of the motor, then do what they say.
Some will say Wiend (sp?) Stealth over the Performer, but i think the difference is minimal.
Port matching is a good idea too and pretty easy to do, follow 2+2's guide.
Since the motor is already a roller cam, I'd stick with that and call a reputable cam maker and describe what you are looking for out of the motor, then do what they say.
Some will say Wiend (sp?) Stealth over the Performer, but i think the difference is minimal.
Port matching is a good idea too and pretty easy to do, follow 2+2's guide.
05-09-2011, 01:54 PM
#16
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: az
Posts: 459
Congratulations,
You can convert it to a carb. There are some decisions you need to make for the conversion.
-timing cover and belt system
-fuel pump
The HO headers won't fit. They aren't worth much unless they are aftermarket.
Did you bro hear the engine run? See the oil pressure?
If not, then I recommend pulling the bottom end apart and installing new bearing (including cam) and new rings. Summit sells a kit to do this minus cam bearings. Have the crank turned first to get proper bearing size.
On the top end, at a minimum I would port the E7 heads in an attempt to get the HP you are looking for. I don't think you will hit your bottom # though. A new cam will require new valve springs to support any additional lift. Also note that this engine is a roller cam and not a solid flat tappet.
If it was me, I would go for more lift with a set of crane/ford cobra 1.7 roller rockers on a new valve spring kit from Trick flow. Run the stock cam and port the heads as best as you can. All total it would probably run about a $1k and make 300ish at the crank.
I did one very similar. Price the following:
Summit rering kit $250-although somewhere there is a link on here to the same kit elsewhere for $175-I couldn't find it though
turn crank $100
cam bearing $35
install cam bearing $30
do it yourself hone $20
remove and dispose of 3 front press in oil galley plugs, replace with thread in type $30
Head bolts $40
spring kit $150
intake used $125
used roller rockers $150
You can convert it to a carb. There are some decisions you need to make for the conversion.
-timing cover and belt system
-fuel pump
The HO headers won't fit. They aren't worth much unless they are aftermarket.
Did you bro hear the engine run? See the oil pressure?
If not, then I recommend pulling the bottom end apart and installing new bearing (including cam) and new rings. Summit sells a kit to do this minus cam bearings. Have the crank turned first to get proper bearing size.
On the top end, at a minimum I would port the E7 heads in an attempt to get the HP you are looking for. I don't think you will hit your bottom # though. A new cam will require new valve springs to support any additional lift. Also note that this engine is a roller cam and not a solid flat tappet.
If it was me, I would go for more lift with a set of crane/ford cobra 1.7 roller rockers on a new valve spring kit from Trick flow. Run the stock cam and port the heads as best as you can. All total it would probably run about a $1k and make 300ish at the crank.
I did one very similar. Price the following:
Summit rering kit $250-although somewhere there is a link on here to the same kit elsewhere for $175-I couldn't find it though
turn crank $100
cam bearing $35
install cam bearing $30
do it yourself hone $20
remove and dispose of 3 front press in oil galley plugs, replace with thread in type $30
Head bolts $40
spring kit $150
intake used $125
used roller rockers $150
Last edited by OCHOHILL; 05-09-2011 at 03:57 PM. Reason: lots of errors, I was multitasking, damn job
05-09-2011, 03:28 PM
#17
6th Gear Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 5,232
A friend of mine has a speed shop, with a chassis dyno built into the floor. This gives him the ability to walk around the car while running at simulated speed, or acceleration. He works with EFI and carburetors. While he has no problem on EFI cars for street, he tells me that all things being equal, i.e., the same engine in the same car, he can usually get a few more hp with a carb.
Couple this with the expense and difficulty of installing (wiring, computer, complex fuel system) and switching to a carb in an early Mustang becomes a no-brainer.
Couple this with the expense and difficulty of installing (wiring, computer, complex fuel system) and switching to a carb in an early Mustang becomes a no-brainer.
05-09-2011, 07:56 PM
#19
6th Gear Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 5,232
On the top end, at a minimum I would port the E7 heads in an attempt to get the HP you are looking for. I don't think you will hit your bottom # though. A new cam will require new valve springs to support any additional lift. Also note that this engine is a roller cam and not a solid flat tappet.
If it was me, I would go for more lift with a set of crane/ford cobra 1.7 roller rockers on a new valve spring kit from Trick flow. Run the stock cam and port the heads as best as you can. All total it would probably run about a $1k and make 300ish at the crank.
If it was me, I would go for more lift with a set of crane/ford cobra 1.7 roller rockers on a new valve spring kit from Trick flow. Run the stock cam and port the heads as best as you can. All total it would probably run about a $1k and make 300ish at the crank.
05-09-2011, 08:45 PM
#20
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: California
Posts: 611
I know I am late to the party, but I read up and unless I missed something, I hear you bought the motor but did you pick up the car? LOL I will try to post some direct replies to your posts and those of others, some are really good suggestions, others I have to question.
I am fascinated with horse power and the myths that surround it so I will follow your thread with great interest.