I agree with F1 especially about support mods. Many people come and ask how much HP will I get with these mods and when people give numbers some stack the gains. Take the mods below and typical gains claimed.

UDP~10
CMCV~10
CAI/Tune~25
xpiipe~10

So adding all of that gives you 320+ but it just doesnt work like that. You might get that much but chances are you are going to be around 305-315 range because they dont add. Cams are a great mod when you have added other mods are mentioned. A bigger TB wont give you much gains with just CAi.Tune, but with some other good mods like cams and the delete plates it will give you some decent gains. And certainly if you are FI it should.

 

well I do plan on doing cams later on after the full exhaust and the delete plates.... is that a good combo?

 

Got both and have absolutely no problems, Delete plates went on first, SOP was better and UDP's were next and car revs much quicker. Only positive results from the two. Lots of speculation in this thread. If installed as per directions and with the right tune, I sure had nothing to worry about and can only report positive results.
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F1fan you are a funny joke also an idiot since you tend to read all the magazines and keep posting the dyno sheets every seller that is trying to sell you cams posts. I got one good question why is it that no S197 that is pushing serious HP has them? Name one please open any issue of 5.0 and under camshafts you will read stock. Here read this post https://mustangforums.com/m_3126218/...tm.htm#3152507

I feel sorry if you did camshafts and paid 2k for around 30hp rofl all the camshafts are basically variations of the stock one with very very very very very very mild modifications.

Also read this post for some real life gains gained 22hp lost 9lbs of torque. My my my dont you feel like an idiot now believing all those sellers dont ya?
https://mustangforums.com/m_3162444/tm.htm

Andrew

 

i would re-think doing cams...

you wont really notice a difference unless you are doing more internals...ie. headwork.

the internals on this car are already amazingly defined...
there are drag stangs running 800-900++ horsepower, using the stock cams.

Thats over a 1000 bucks for a gamble that you could even LOSE power...as one guy last week posted...

there are VERY few engine bolt-on mods for our cars before it gets to the point of being useless...

UDP, Delete Plates, yes, great choice...do them both and get a good tune...you'll notive the difference..

as for cams, wiat it out...do some reading and know that cams ALONE, will lose you power and torque...
do your reading cause you'll need numerous other parts first that will compliment those cams to actually showcase the 25-30 that comp cams says you'll get...
and its more than just a TB and an intake tube...

stick with stock cams....

 

Lenko, do you have any numbers or dyno results???

 

Hi tonkpils,

If you plan to stay N/A and want to see the biggest gains from your cams install thecams only after you have done all of the intake and exhaust side flow improvements. Then drop in the cams, bee hives and retainers and watchthe power jump. The reason isthe cams needadditional air flow improvements both into and out of the heads that on their own show potential but are limited byvalve timing. Cams solve the flow problems by improving the flow through the heads at higher RPM which as we all know is how you make horse power on a small displacement engine.

To get the most out of the cams you will need to do the full Monty on the intake side. This would include installingone of thebest flowing CAI kits like the Steeda CAI (90mm MAF), with the high-velocity intake tube or a C&L"Racer" CAI kit, a 62mm throttle body (BBK's seems to have the least amount of trouble on the street),and CMCV delete plates (any will do, I used FRPP). You should also have an exhaust system that can keep up with the intake side including headers, X/H pipe or down-pipe with high-flow cats and decent rear mufflers.

Cheers/Chip

 

Why would you rethink cams on a N/A motor?OnN/A motors cams have always been the key to better breathing which makes more horsepower. As with all things there is a balance between the amount of work you have to perform andthe hardware costs vs. what you get back in terms of power. What you can effectively do to make more power also depends heavily on what has already been done to the engine.

Sure, if you do nothing else to the motor exceptport and polishthe heads as was the casethatLivernois dyno tested you get more power and in Livernois' example this is 40+RWHP. This sounds really good until you look at the cost of pulling off the heads and having them P&P'd and then reinstalling them. Even if you doall of the R&R labor on the headsthe gasket kits and headwork will still cost you wellover $2K and your car will be sittingin your garage for a week while you do the work. To get that same 40+RWHP you can install a good CAI kit and tune, CPCV deletes and a Meziere eH2O pump for less than half the price an get it all done in less than a day with simple hand tools. This is why almost everybody does these things first, fast, cheap andsimple.

So with themost commonly installed modifications on S197GT 3-valve motors logically beinga goodCAI kit with a hand held tuner followed by headers and exhaust of some sort people start to think of ways to get more power because the big improvements have already been taken. For this mosttypicalof 3-valve engine combinationsyou will be very disappointed to lean that after pullingthe heads off and having the heads ported, matched andpolishedall thatexpensive head workis only good for 10-12RWHP. Many people have already gone this route and were horrified to findthis was all there was to be had even after a very expensive custom tuning session on the dyno which only added to the insult made to their pocket books. The reason is that thelargest part of the airflow bottleneck was in front of the heads which if you go back and search through my old posts I had previously predicted would be the case. I trusted my knowledge and experience and didn't have my heads portedand my predictions were accurate for allof the reasons I've given previously. But I had some inside knowledge, Ihad measuredmy 3-valvehead's intake and exhaust port volume and port areaand punched in the numbers and calculated that the stock heads and valves should support400-425bhp with no real problems. So my thinking was, why port them for a very small incremental improvement except for a race car? I'm not racing and there are bigger fish to fry for less moneywith better results.

You don't seem tounderstand the way cams and blowers work together very well. Thesemild 800-900 horsepower drag cars you are talking about are mostly going toberunningon built bottom-ends with supercharged(screws, turbos, centris etc.), motorsrunning stock cams that are locked down.You can run most any stock cam in a supercharged motor and get good results with smart tuning. But you will see improved powerwith better cams profiles which weredesigned for supercharged applications. This is why most stock or very mild street cams are the best choice for mild or street blower applications. The Comp Cams grinds for the 3-valve heads are not designed for supercharged applications, they are designed aroundmoderate increases in duration, valve overlap and lift and take the stock 3-valve head's VVT potential 50 degrees of cam timming shiftintoconsideration. Supercharged motors do not like long overlap or long duration cam profilesbecause this causescylinder pressure losses. Supercharged motors prefer steep ramps with high-lift and short durationwhichhelps build and preserve cylinder pressure because cylinder pressure is what makes horsepower and torque.

So to recap for youthe reasons most folks running blown 3-valve motors are using stock cams is that there is not enough room in the heads to really increase the valve lift significantly. There are also noroller cam followers available to ovecome the limitations of the heavy stock roller cam followers' inability to operate reliably withthe prefered steepramp profiles needed fora blower optimized cam design. People are running stock cams in their supercharged motors, this is true but it's NOT because the stock cams areas good as it gets but because the3-valve headsdesign is at odds with the needs of a supercharged engine.

So are you statingthat Brenspeed is lying about the power gains from their Comp Cams dyno tests? If so this will be news to all of the people who bought and dyno'd their cars andhave seen30-50RWHP power gains on the dyno. Maybe you should do an expose on them.

The guy that said he lost power when he installed his cams most likely will find the power is in ther once he takes his car into a shop that will find and correct his installation errors. The Comp Camsgrinds for the 3-valve are a well knownwell proven grinds lifted from their4-valve 4.6l mod motor head cam profiles. There is no magic involved here. Look at the cam timing, lift and profiles and you will see they are the old, well proven 4-valve grinds applied tothe newersingle stick, multi-intake valveddesign. The cost ofa pair of Comp Cams 3-valve cams in any of the offered grinds is $700 on the street not the $1,000 number as you have posted.

Clearly you have no real experience in building high performance engines. There are very few bolt-on engine modsfor anyV-8 engine. The 4.6l modular motor is no different and is as simple as it gets these days becausethe whole intake is accessable from the top of the engine, this has always been the case with V-8layout engines. Ican have the whole intake and fuel system out of the car in less than an hour on my S197GT. I could do the same thing on my '66fastback, what is your point? The ONLY modifications that actually helpthe S197's 3-valveengines produce more power at the crank are airflow into and out of the heads withimprovements to fuel delivery as required to match the increased air flow. These are the ONLY bolt-ons thatcan possibly make any difference in power output at the crank. This means all you have isan air filter, mass air flow sensor housing, intake tube, throttle body, manifold andCMCV plates,exhaustm

 

that was a nice long post...

but the reality is that our cars cams are already amazing!

https://mustangforums.com/m_3162444/tm.htm

thats a link to a guy who JUST put the cams in and LOST torque and only made gains in the upper end...no lower end gains...

I agree, cams SHOULD be a great investment, but for our cars, the stock cams are already do a good enough job...

 

That is one guy with marginal results and very likely a bad installation and tune. There are many people with similar results to those posted by Brenspeed.

Cheers/Chip