Need Suspension Mod Suggestions
07-24-2006, 04:38 AM
#1
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Need Suspension Mod Suggestions
I have had my GT for a few months now and I love it, but one thing has been bothering me.
Sometimes when making a turn or taking the curves on an on-ramp, if there is a slight bump in the road, I will feel the car lurch as it goes over it, almost as if the rear wheel are about to leave the ground and the car is about to spin out of control. The bump doesn't have to be that big and I don't even have to be going that fast for this to occur.
Why does this happen? I am guessing there could be some suspension mods that could help with this? If so, which ones?
07-24-2006, 09:53 AM
#2
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RE: Need Suspension Mod Suggestions
This is a very commonly described "problem" with the suspension on these cars. The back end breaks traction momentarily then hooks back up again.
When I did my rear suspension replacement my car stopped doing it. I replaced pretty much all the parts back there with aftermarket, but I'd bet that a bigger sway bar and LCAs would be all you'd need.
When I did my rear suspension replacement my car stopped doing it. I replaced pretty much all the parts back there with aftermarket, but I'd bet that a bigger sway bar and LCAs would be all you'd need.
07-24-2006, 09:04 PM
#3
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RE: Need Suspension Mod Suggestions
Thanks for the info. Good to know I am not the only one experiencing this and that it could be a relatively simple fix.
I have an auto, I don't road race or drag race or anything, but I am curious what other suspension mods would be recommended? I am simply looking for mods that will noticeably improve handling under normal driving sutations (for instance that situation I described in my original post). It is a daily driver so I am not looking to make it too harsh of a ride, but I am curious what things I can benefit from.
Also, what kind of warranty trouble do you run into with suspension modifications? I would guess in situations where you are replacing a part from the factory you could run into problems, but what about things like strut tower brace or subframe connector where you are simply adding a part?
07-25-2006, 01:08 AM
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RE: Need Suspension Mod Suggestions
The FRPP pack is OK I suppose. It's not the best, and it's not what I would call cheap, but it's alright if you don't want to do your homework.
Here are my more detailed thoughts on the more commonly discussed suspension upgrades:
Sway Bars:
The front is quite good stock. There are many, many, things that I would replace before the front sway bar. In fact, I'd put the front sway bar at the very bottom of the "suspension mod list". The rear, however, is an excellent thing to upgrade. A stiffer rear bar will help keep both tires planted when you hit the gas on the strip or coming out of a corner. It will also balance out the steering bias (understeer) the car has from the factory. I like the Steeda and the BMR ones the best, but there are many choices here: Steeda, BMR, Ford, Roush, Eibach, etc. I left my front stock and got a Steeda rearI normally don't like Steeda's billet aluminum parts, but their rear sway bar with the billet mounting bars is a great product. The billet bars are much stronger than the flimsy OEM ones. Another option would be to find a Shelby rear sway bar, as Ford increased the size of the rear bar on the GT500. Several companies sell a kit that has both front and rear sway bars. Personally I do not like these. I would stick with the rear ONLY. Stiffening the front istypically a DOWNGRADE because it will prevent you from eliminating the oversteer problem.
Al's Pick: Leave the front stock. Either Steeda or BMR rear.
Strut tower bars:
The theory of this product is that it ties together the front strut towers, reducing body flex. The S197 chassis is very stiffespeically at the front strut towers. Consequently this isn't really needed. In my opinion, this is a mainly costmetic mod. There are tons of choices out there as this is a popular "me too" product that was popularized with ricersbecasue of this there's flood of them on the market. The the BMR is the strongest. If you seriously want one that's functional, that's what I'd get. The Steeda one with the billet ends is a joke and has an insane price tag. No thanks! Note that some strut tower bars can interfere with superchargers or plenum covers, so be careful of that.
Al's Pick: none. leave it stock and save your $$$ and weight for mods that really count.
Shocks:
If you want good shocks there are many options: FRPP and Saleen are a good match with lowering springs. But, the hot ticket is the Toicko D-specs. These are fully adjustable, so you can set up your car for street, road race, drag, or whatever you feel like. They also have very good valving, which was designed in part by Steeda. You can adjust them very quickly (less than 5 min for all 4 shocks), which gives you a lot of options. If you have to take a long trip with the family you can soften 'em up and make the car ride like a cadillac. Stiffen up all four when you drive in the twisties. You can leave the rear stiff and soften the front for better transfer on launch when you hit the drag strip....these are just some examples, but suffice it to say the D-specs are very very nice. Check with Brenspeed for the best price that I know of. Last time I checked they were $540 for all four, with free shipping!
Al's Pick: D-specs.
Springs:
Many choices here. Springs are mainly a cosmetic thing, but a mild drop will lower the center of gravity of the car and that can help cornering. All of the major brands are good (Eibach, Ford, Steeda, Roush, BMR). I'd make a choice depending on how much lowering you want. The most popular for mild drops are the Roush and the Steela "ultralite" springs. The Eibach Pro-Kit is really popular too. Roush will sell you sets of just fronts or just rears. Some guys, myself included, lowered just the rear of the car. I think that's nice if you want a very mild drop and you want to be careful about ground clearance. Beware the Eibach "sportline" kit. This is a VERY low drop that is impractical on a street-driven car, and is sure to cause headaches with alignment, bump-steer, etc. I would only consider the sportlines if you want a "Show" car and don't plan on driving it hard.
Al's Pick: any major brand
Coil Overs:
If you want, you can replace the stock shocks and springs with a coil over setup. Coil-overs combine springs and shocks into a single package. They are usually adjustable for both ride height and for damping (like the D-specs). These are very expensive, but have the advantage of letting you adjust the ride height exactly where you want it. I wouldn't buy these unless you are a very serious road-course racer and need to get everything absoloutley perfect. They are a pain to adjust, and then once you have the height set where you want it, then you have to go and reset the camber, pinion angle, and all that. You can't practically adjust your ride height to suit your whims, there is just too much work involved.
Al's Pick: Not worthwhile. Your money is better spent elsewhere. Stick with a good set of traditional shocks and springs.
Lower Control arms (LCA):
This is a key weak point from the factory. I consider this a MANDATORY mod for all S197 Mustang GTs. If you're tired of wheelhop, wasted HP and loss of traction then this is the first mod you need to do. I like the tubular welded steel ones, such as those from Spohn, BMR, CHE, etc. There are different types available (adjustable vs. non-adjustable). Get the adjustable ones if you have lowered your car (or if you have a 1-pc driveshaft) so that you can correct your pinion angle. Get the solid ones if you aren't lowering the car and are not going to get a 1-pc driveshaft. Steeda makes some billet aluminum ones which look nice but are $$$ expensive and are known to break on high HP cars. I'd avoid those and get the tubular steel type. The tubular steel ones are lighter, stronger, and cheaper. I don't like the CHE ones becasue they don't have grease fittings in them. That's bad for maintenance. My favorites are the BMR "combo street" type with a poly bushing on one end and a spherical bearing on the other. Spohn has a set that is virtually identical, either would be a fantastic choice.
Al's Pick: BMR or Spohn "combo" type. Adjustable if you are lowering or have a 1-pc driveshaft. Solid for stock height & driveshaft.
Upper Control arms (UCA):
Another factory weak spot. The upper control arm is located above the rear differential housing. The stock one is stamped steel and is quite flimsy for the amount of load it has to bear. You can get aftermarket UCAs in either the solid type or the adjustable type, just like LCAs. You only need adjustability on one set (either upper OR lower). Personally I suggest a SOLID UCA and then adjustable LCAs. (this is stronger and easier to adjust). I think the BMR solid UCA is the best on the market, no contest. While many companies have decent LCAs, BMR is the undisputed king of the UCA. It's boxed design and thick steel construction is completely bulletproof. I suggest the one with the spherical bearing. Also, buy a polyurethane bushing that fits in the diff housing to go with it. The bushing is dirt cheap, and it's a pain to install. But it's worth it. This combined with good LCAs will have your rear end hooking up like nobody's business. If you are running serious HP and low drag times, get the matching UCA mount to go with this. The poly bushing for the rear end housing is available from Spohn or BMR.
Al's Pick: BMR solid (non-adjustable) with spherical bearing.
Subframe Brace (AKA subframe connector):
These are metal pieces that are welded to the underside of the car. They join together the front and rear subframes of the body, tying them into the floor of the car. This makes the chassis stiffer as a whole. There are three that I know of. The best is the BMR heavy duty, followed by the Steeda "triangulated" followed by the BMR "normal version". These are only truly needed on very high-HP cars, but they do stiffen the chassis as a whole, and I think they make a good foundation for a future buildup or if you simply want to maximize the handling of your car.
Here are my more detailed thoughts on the more commonly discussed suspension upgrades:
Sway Bars:
The front is quite good stock. There are many, many, things that I would replace before the front sway bar. In fact, I'd put the front sway bar at the very bottom of the "suspension mod list". The rear, however, is an excellent thing to upgrade. A stiffer rear bar will help keep both tires planted when you hit the gas on the strip or coming out of a corner. It will also balance out the steering bias (understeer) the car has from the factory. I like the Steeda and the BMR ones the best, but there are many choices here: Steeda, BMR, Ford, Roush, Eibach, etc. I left my front stock and got a Steeda rearI normally don't like Steeda's billet aluminum parts, but their rear sway bar with the billet mounting bars is a great product. The billet bars are much stronger than the flimsy OEM ones. Another option would be to find a Shelby rear sway bar, as Ford increased the size of the rear bar on the GT500. Several companies sell a kit that has both front and rear sway bars. Personally I do not like these. I would stick with the rear ONLY. Stiffening the front istypically a DOWNGRADE because it will prevent you from eliminating the oversteer problem.
Al's Pick: Leave the front stock. Either Steeda or BMR rear.
Strut tower bars:
The theory of this product is that it ties together the front strut towers, reducing body flex. The S197 chassis is very stiffespeically at the front strut towers. Consequently this isn't really needed. In my opinion, this is a mainly costmetic mod. There are tons of choices out there as this is a popular "me too" product that was popularized with ricersbecasue of this there's flood of them on the market. The the BMR is the strongest. If you seriously want one that's functional, that's what I'd get. The Steeda one with the billet ends is a joke and has an insane price tag. No thanks! Note that some strut tower bars can interfere with superchargers or plenum covers, so be careful of that.
Al's Pick: none. leave it stock and save your $$$ and weight for mods that really count.
Shocks:
If you want good shocks there are many options: FRPP and Saleen are a good match with lowering springs. But, the hot ticket is the Toicko D-specs. These are fully adjustable, so you can set up your car for street, road race, drag, or whatever you feel like. They also have very good valving, which was designed in part by Steeda. You can adjust them very quickly (less than 5 min for all 4 shocks), which gives you a lot of options. If you have to take a long trip with the family you can soften 'em up and make the car ride like a cadillac. Stiffen up all four when you drive in the twisties. You can leave the rear stiff and soften the front for better transfer on launch when you hit the drag strip....these are just some examples, but suffice it to say the D-specs are very very nice. Check with Brenspeed for the best price that I know of. Last time I checked they were $540 for all four, with free shipping!
Al's Pick: D-specs.
Springs:
Many choices here. Springs are mainly a cosmetic thing, but a mild drop will lower the center of gravity of the car and that can help cornering. All of the major brands are good (Eibach, Ford, Steeda, Roush, BMR). I'd make a choice depending on how much lowering you want. The most popular for mild drops are the Roush and the Steela "ultralite" springs. The Eibach Pro-Kit is really popular too. Roush will sell you sets of just fronts or just rears. Some guys, myself included, lowered just the rear of the car. I think that's nice if you want a very mild drop and you want to be careful about ground clearance. Beware the Eibach "sportline" kit. This is a VERY low drop that is impractical on a street-driven car, and is sure to cause headaches with alignment, bump-steer, etc. I would only consider the sportlines if you want a "Show" car and don't plan on driving it hard.
Al's Pick: any major brand
Coil Overs:
If you want, you can replace the stock shocks and springs with a coil over setup. Coil-overs combine springs and shocks into a single package. They are usually adjustable for both ride height and for damping (like the D-specs). These are very expensive, but have the advantage of letting you adjust the ride height exactly where you want it. I wouldn't buy these unless you are a very serious road-course racer and need to get everything absoloutley perfect. They are a pain to adjust, and then once you have the height set where you want it, then you have to go and reset the camber, pinion angle, and all that. You can't practically adjust your ride height to suit your whims, there is just too much work involved.
Al's Pick: Not worthwhile. Your money is better spent elsewhere. Stick with a good set of traditional shocks and springs.
Lower Control arms (LCA):
This is a key weak point from the factory. I consider this a MANDATORY mod for all S197 Mustang GTs. If you're tired of wheelhop, wasted HP and loss of traction then this is the first mod you need to do. I like the tubular welded steel ones, such as those from Spohn, BMR, CHE, etc. There are different types available (adjustable vs. non-adjustable). Get the adjustable ones if you have lowered your car (or if you have a 1-pc driveshaft) so that you can correct your pinion angle. Get the solid ones if you aren't lowering the car and are not going to get a 1-pc driveshaft. Steeda makes some billet aluminum ones which look nice but are $$$ expensive and are known to break on high HP cars. I'd avoid those and get the tubular steel type. The tubular steel ones are lighter, stronger, and cheaper. I don't like the CHE ones becasue they don't have grease fittings in them. That's bad for maintenance. My favorites are the BMR "combo street" type with a poly bushing on one end and a spherical bearing on the other. Spohn has a set that is virtually identical, either would be a fantastic choice.
Al's Pick: BMR or Spohn "combo" type. Adjustable if you are lowering or have a 1-pc driveshaft. Solid for stock height & driveshaft.
Upper Control arms (UCA):
Another factory weak spot. The upper control arm is located above the rear differential housing. The stock one is stamped steel and is quite flimsy for the amount of load it has to bear. You can get aftermarket UCAs in either the solid type or the adjustable type, just like LCAs. You only need adjustability on one set (either upper OR lower). Personally I suggest a SOLID UCA and then adjustable LCAs. (this is stronger and easier to adjust). I think the BMR solid UCA is the best on the market, no contest. While many companies have decent LCAs, BMR is the undisputed king of the UCA. It's boxed design and thick steel construction is completely bulletproof. I suggest the one with the spherical bearing. Also, buy a polyurethane bushing that fits in the diff housing to go with it. The bushing is dirt cheap, and it's a pain to install. But it's worth it. This combined with good LCAs will have your rear end hooking up like nobody's business. If you are running serious HP and low drag times, get the matching UCA mount to go with this. The poly bushing for the rear end housing is available from Spohn or BMR.
Al's Pick: BMR solid (non-adjustable) with spherical bearing.
Subframe Brace (AKA subframe connector):
These are metal pieces that are welded to the underside of the car. They join together the front and rear subframes of the body, tying them into the floor of the car. This makes the chassis stiffer as a whole. There are three that I know of. The best is the BMR heavy duty, followed by the Steeda "triangulated" followed by the BMR "normal version". These are only truly needed on very high-HP cars, but they do stiffen the chassis as a whole, and I think they make a good foundation for a future buildup or if you simply want to maximize the handling of your car.
07-25-2006, 01:28 AM
#6
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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RE: Need Suspension Mod Suggestions
ORIGINAL: CrazyAl
Springs:
Many choices here. All of the major brands are good (Eibach, Ford, Steeda, Roush). They are all good. I'd make a choice depending on how much lowering you want. Roush will sell you sets of just fronts or just rears. Some guys, myself included, lowered just the rear of the car. I think that's nice if you want a very mild drop.
Springs:
Many choices here. All of the major brands are good (Eibach, Ford, Steeda, Roush). They are all good. I'd make a choice depending on how much lowering you want. Roush will sell you sets of just fronts or just rears. Some guys, myself included, lowered just the rear of the car. I think that's nice if you want a very mild drop.
The weight distribution of the Vert is such that unless you are adding weight to the front(hint, hint - SC
), the Roush rear-only route leaves you with a rear that is a little too low...I do mean "a little"...
If I were to remove the Skipper 1K box, I think that would have the front and rear EXACTLY level...
As it is, if I measure it, I find less than 1/4" difference (the rear too low)...
In my case, I don't care as I am about to add about 70lbs to the front (hint, hint - SC
), but before anyone else out there reproduced the classic sagging rear of a 65/66 leaf spring, I thought I would warn you...
07-25-2006, 12:37 PM
#7
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Posts: 310
RE: Need Suspension Mod Suggestions
ORIGINAL: CrazyAl
Subframe Brace (AKA subframe connector):
These are metal pieces that are welded to the underside of the car. They join together the front and rear subframes of the body, tying them into the floor of the car. This makes the chassis stiffer as a whole. There are three that I know of. The best is the BMR heavy duty, followed by the Steeda "triangulated" followed by the BMR "normal version". These are only truly needed on very high-HP cars, but they do stiffen the chassis as a whole, and I think they make a good foundation for a future buildup or if you simply want to maximize the handling of your car.
Subframe Brace (AKA subframe connector):
These are metal pieces that are welded to the underside of the car. They join together the front and rear subframes of the body, tying them into the floor of the car. This makes the chassis stiffer as a whole. There are three that I know of. The best is the BMR heavy duty, followed by the Steeda "triangulated" followed by the BMR "normal version". These are only truly needed on very high-HP cars, but they do stiffen the chassis as a whole, and I think they make a good foundation for a future buildup or if you simply want to maximize the handling of your car.
I'm curious as to your ranking of these three options. As soon as my wallet recovers from some recent mods, I am going to add some kind of subframe connectors to my 'vert. I was going to go with the Steeda triangulated piece because the basic geometry seems superior, and a past thread leaned that way. But, I don't know much about this stuff and I want to be really careful with anything that'll be welded to my car. Can anybody shed any more light? Any owner experiences or strong opinions as to the best subframe brace?
07-25-2006, 12:56 PM
#8
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Posts: 713
RE: Need Suspension Mod Suggestions
ORIGINAL: Bob D.
I'm curious as to your ranking of these three options. As soon as my wallet recovers from some recent mods, I am going to add some kind of subframe connectors to my 'vert.
I'm curious as to your ranking of these three options. As soon as my wallet recovers from some recent mods, I am going to add some kind of subframe connectors to my 'vert.
2. I believe the vert's rear braces will interfere with everything I have seen for coups so far (not to mention make them redundant)
3. I have heard that front strut braces for the Vert are slightly more useful than a coup, but so far it seems to buy you little to add bracing..
You can stiffen any car, but make sure as you are looking that you are getting Vert specific info - they are NOT the same cars...
07-25-2006, 01:19 PM
#9
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 206
RE: Need Suspension Mod Suggestions
CrazyAl....damn informative. Btw tho, mild correction, Steeda does have a panhard brace and panhard bar...at least according to Dynospeed Racing in Memphis where I am getting my work done in Sept/Oct (I am getting both added, they weren't very expensive really).
07-25-2006, 01:25 PM
#10
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RE: Need Suspension Mod Suggestions
I have handled both the Steeda and the BMR braces. The BMR is clearly a more solid, stronger, item.
There is a past thread about these parts here, including a very good post by Chevykiller (and F1Fan) that discusses them individually:
https://mustangforums.com/m_1481499/tm.htm
Keep in mind that if you get any of these braces, you REALLY need to have them welded in place. Bolting just doesn't cut it.
There is a past thread about these parts here, including a very good post by Chevykiller (and F1Fan) that discusses them individually:
https://mustangforums.com/m_1481499/tm.htm
Keep in mind that if you get any of these braces, you REALLY need to have them welded in place. Bolting just doesn't cut it.