sport lines
01-06-2007, 03:15 AM
#21
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: California
Posts: 1,471
RE: sport lines
ORIGINAL: Simon1
F1Fan,
How about the kit Saleen makes for the S197. Front sway bar, new front springs and shocks/struts all the way around. I go to the strip occasionally, but I'm not that interested in having a drag strip only car. I doubtI will ever road race. I do that enough at work. I'm looking for a lowered daily driver suspension. My wife doesn't drive it and I don't mind a firm ride.
I'm pretty sureI will need some camber bolts, an adjustable panhard bar and adjustable LCA's.
F1Fan,
How about the kit Saleen makes for the S197. Front sway bar, new front springs and shocks/struts all the way around. I go to the strip occasionally, but I'm not that interested in having a drag strip only car. I doubtI will ever road race. I do that enough at work. I'm looking for a lowered daily driver suspension. My wife doesn't drive it and I don't mind a firm ride.
I'm pretty sureI will need some camber bolts, an adjustable panhard bar and adjustable LCA's.
Hi Simon1,
Pass on the prepackaged suspension kits, they all suck for serious driving. You can actually assemble a much better kit on your own by picking and choosing from the best stuff out there that fits your needs and local driving conditions.My recommended core street performancesuspension setup that every carshould have before you get anyother suspension parts is asfollows:
Start here. Ideally you would have taken the same measurements with the car in stock form to compare with your inital setup after installing the springs, dampers and Panhard bar. Take plenty of notes and make drawings of how and where you measured. This will allow you to repeat the measurements and allow accurate repeatable measurements of your car. I promise you this will all be important if you get serious about improving your car's handling and cornering performance.
Once you get it all installed make sure to carefully center the rear axle using the Panhard bar adjuster.Have a basic alignment (streetsetting is -0.5 to -0.75 max. negativecamber, 0" to1/16"toe out loaded), done on the front end. Measureall fourof your lowerfront and rear control arm height pick up points on the chassis side (center of the bolts),on a level concrete floor to find basic ride height reference points. Measure the angle of the LCA's, measure theangle of the Panhard bar,measure the angle of the front control arms and if you know how, bumpsteer in 1" increments of travel front and rear. These are your starting referencepoints and with this info you can start to see what lowering the car using springs has done to mess up the geometry of the chassis and how it has altered the steering and handling traits from a stock setup.
Here is what you need:
Small notebook: personally I like them a bit biggerfor sketching andkeeping better notes on setup, temps pressure, alignment specs etc. also document anything that happened to car and what needs to be looked at.
Good 3" tire pressure gauge withlocking indicator and pressure bleeder,liquid filledis good, you reallycan't doanything right without knowing tire pressures
Inexpensive non-contact IR temp gun with laser pointer,helps to quickly answer many questions about chassis, brakesetup and engine tunethat you cannot figure out any other way as fast without several guesses.This tool is really only needed if you are going to attend HPDE,opentrack days or autocross events.
Tokico D-Specdampers, these babys are very adjustable sothey can be setup towork well withany streetable sportsprings and camber adjusters, uses OE style mounting top and bottom and has anti-roll bar ear in OE location so is fully compatable with anything you are likely to buy for the front suspension
Camber adjusters,most willwork O.K. butthe new Steeda street strut bearings with built-in camber adjustersand Eibach/SPC camber bolts are the best of what is out there and when combined offer a very widerange of camberadjustment
Good set of sportsprings, GEEZ so many options, Steeda sport or ultra-lites for snow country carsor soft DD, Eibach Prokit or Steeda compforperformace DD street, Steeda orH&Rcomp for track cars but with H&R look out for geometry issues in front and rear axle IC/anti squat, roll understeerand travel issuesif using soft damper settings, need to trim or replace rearaxle bumpers with shorter stiffer parts and install Steeda LCA relocation brackets. With comp springs you need stiff sidewall tires with high grip compounds
STIFF adjustable Panhard bar,poly/poly bushingsforstreetor heim/heim for a track car use,higher alloysprefered over mild steel for rigidity hence handling feel is better and driver has better sensitivity to rear axle grip level
Matching Panhard bar support brace, this makes your nice stiff Panhard bar work much better through better chassis side pickup point location especiallyif using rod ends, also helpschassis last longer by spreading loads to more chassis areas
Get this done and the car will be better than 90% of the drivers out there.
HTH
01-06-2007, 11:05 AM
#22
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 307
RE: sport lines
F1Fan,
so you ever go to USGP? i live somewhat close to Indy and i'm pretty much there for Indy 500 and F1 every year, went to the brickyard once. For F1 last year my buddy and i had seats on turn 11 i believe (have to look at the track map again), really good seats. This year we have tickets for Turn 1. I'm excited. I really hope it stays in indy, but i dont really think it will. I hope to make it up to Detroit the AMLS race. God i love racing!!!
so you ever go to USGP? i live somewhat close to Indy and i'm pretty much there for Indy 500 and F1 every year, went to the brickyard once. For F1 last year my buddy and i had seats on turn 11 i believe (have to look at the track map again), really good seats. This year we have tickets for Turn 1. I'm excited. I really hope it stays in indy, but i dont really think it will. I hope to make it up to Detroit the AMLS race. God i love racing!!!
01-06-2007, 12:00 PM
#23
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: California
Posts: 1,471
RE: sport lines
ORIGINAL: Dumpweed
F1Fan,
so you ever go to USGP? i live somewhat close to Indy and i'm pretty much there for Indy 500 and F1 every year, went to the brickyard once. For F1 last year my buddy and i had seats on turn 11 i believe (have to look at the track map again), really good seats. This year we have tickets for Turn 1. I'm excited. I really hope it stays in indy, but i dont really think it will. I hope to make it up to Detroit the AMLS race. God i love racing!!!
F1Fan,
so you ever go to USGP? i live somewhat close to Indy and i'm pretty much there for Indy 500 and F1 every year, went to the brickyard once. For F1 last year my buddy and i had seats on turn 11 i believe (have to look at the track map again), really good seats. This year we have tickets for Turn 1. I'm excited. I really hope it stays in indy, but i dont really think it will. I hope to make it up to Detroit the AMLS race. God i love racing!!!
Hi Dumpweed,
I've never been to the USGP at Indy but have been at the Indy 500 long agoand the US Nationals with the NHRA. I mostly don't travel to the races much anymore and only attend a few ofwestern states races. Sincethe CAR/IRL split I've been boycottingU.S. open wheel racing because they pissed me off so much just likepro baseball did back when they had the strike. I've been enjoying vintageracing and NHRA drag racing since U.S. open wheel racing is so screwed up and finding that there is very good racing to be seen at these events. I may never go back toU.S. open wheel racing ifBernie E. books us a few more dates with one out in the west I'd bethere with the new rules andM.S. retiring. I like open wheel racing the best for the purity of the carsbut I have also found other forms interesting especially productionbased cars and longer events like ALMS.
Cheers
01-09-2007, 06:38 PM
#24
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tri Cities, TN
Posts: 452
RE: sport lines
F1Fan,
Sent you a PM...maybe you're not around, maybe not answering.
Why hasn't the original question about the Sportlines been answered?
Yes, they're low. Very low, but I've seen track 'Stangs as low. Their geometry has been corrected with a number of aftermarket products, mostly to get the roll center back above the pavement. Question I have is about the rates of the Sportline springs. I was told they're all wrong.
F1...I'd also like to ask you why you're so against a set of coilovers? TIt sounds like there's a personal agenda here, because what you're saying dosen't make sense?
Here's why.
You say to set your car up with a set of coilovers would require excessive equipment, stacks of springs, shock dynos, etc., and days at the track.
But you also say throw a set of adjustable shocks and stock type springs on, and you're ready to go.
What's the difference? You say coilovers need remote reservoirs? Why don't you expect the same from the Tokiko's? Why don't every other shock that's made need a remote reservoir if that's what makes a shock worth while? Why does an adjustable shock like the D Spec get rave reviews from you, but another quality adjustable shock gets the ditch, just because it dosen't have a remote reservoir? (and it's got a spring around it)
I don't follow what seems to be a double standard here. I'm not arguing weather what you say is true or not, just the standard.
The way I see it, the coilovers give you ride height adjustability. Nothing more, really. (It does give you the ability to change spring rates much easier if you desire) If the damper they're using is a quality damper, and is adjustable for compression and rebound, then what's the difference between upgrading the stock shock to an adjustable one and then replacing the spring, or installing one that the spring is already attached to?
The rears are not coilovers, so all that talk about needing reenforcement is moot. They offer an asjustable spring seat, along with an adjustable shock,which is what you're looking for with coilovers anyway. Accomplishes the same thing. (to a degree)
I'm open to learning something here, so please let me know where I'm wrong in my view.
If I go with coilovers, it'll be because the decent stock type springs that are available don't lower the car to my liking. Once I have the car lowered to where I like it, the geometry issues can be addressed, just like the track cars. If I want to change it, it's as simple as another trip to the alignment shop.
Sent you a PM...maybe you're not around, maybe not answering.
Why hasn't the original question about the Sportlines been answered?
Yes, they're low. Very low, but I've seen track 'Stangs as low. Their geometry has been corrected with a number of aftermarket products, mostly to get the roll center back above the pavement. Question I have is about the rates of the Sportline springs. I was told they're all wrong.
F1...I'd also like to ask you why you're so against a set of coilovers? TIt sounds like there's a personal agenda here, because what you're saying dosen't make sense?
Here's why.
You say to set your car up with a set of coilovers would require excessive equipment, stacks of springs, shock dynos, etc., and days at the track.
But you also say throw a set of adjustable shocks and stock type springs on, and you're ready to go.
What's the difference? You say coilovers need remote reservoirs? Why don't you expect the same from the Tokiko's? Why don't every other shock that's made need a remote reservoir if that's what makes a shock worth while? Why does an adjustable shock like the D Spec get rave reviews from you, but another quality adjustable shock gets the ditch, just because it dosen't have a remote reservoir? (and it's got a spring around it)
I don't follow what seems to be a double standard here. I'm not arguing weather what you say is true or not, just the standard.
The way I see it, the coilovers give you ride height adjustability. Nothing more, really. (It does give you the ability to change spring rates much easier if you desire) If the damper they're using is a quality damper, and is adjustable for compression and rebound, then what's the difference between upgrading the stock shock to an adjustable one and then replacing the spring, or installing one that the spring is already attached to?
The rears are not coilovers, so all that talk about needing reenforcement is moot. They offer an asjustable spring seat, along with an adjustable shock,which is what you're looking for with coilovers anyway. Accomplishes the same thing. (to a degree)
I'm open to learning something here, so please let me know where I'm wrong in my view.
If I go with coilovers, it'll be because the decent stock type springs that are available don't lower the car to my liking. Once I have the car lowered to where I like it, the geometry issues can be addressed, just like the track cars. If I want to change it, it's as simple as another trip to the alignment shop.
01-12-2007, 12:17 PM
#26
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Redding, CA
Posts: 4,552
RE: sport lines
ORIGINAL: F1Fan
Hi Simon1,
Pass on the prepackaged suspension kits, they all suck for serious driving. You can actually assemble a much better kit on your own by picking and choosing from the best stuff out there that fits your needs and local driving conditions.My recommended core street performancesuspension setup that every carshould have before you get anyother suspension parts is asfollows:
Start here. Ideally you would have taken the same measurements with the car in stock form to compare with your inital setup after installing the springs, dampers and Panhard bar. Take plenty of notes and make drawings of how and where you measured. This will allow you to repeat the measurements and allow accurate repeatable measurements of your car. I promise you this will all be important if you get serious about improving your car's handling and cornering performance.
Once you get it all installed make sure to carefully center the rear axle using the Panhard bar adjuster.Have a basic alignment (streetsetting is -0.5 to -0.75 max. negativecamber, 0" to1/16"toe out loaded), done on the front end. Measureall fourof your lowerfront and rear control arm height pick up points on the chassis side (center of the bolts),on a level concrete floor to find basic ride height reference points. Measure the angle of the LCA's, measure theangle of the Panhard bar,measure the angle of the front control arms and if you know how, bumpsteer in 1" increments of travel front and rear. These are your starting referencepoints and with this info you can start to see what lowering the car using springs has done to mess up the geometry of the chassis and how it has altered the steering and handling traits from a stock setup.
Here is what you need:
Small notebook: personally I like them a bit biggerfor sketching andkeeping better notes on setup, temps pressure, alignment specs etc. also document anything that happened to car and what needs to be looked at.
Good 3" tire pressure gauge withlocking indicator and pressure bleeder,liquid filledis good, you reallycan't doanything right without knowing tire pressures
Inexpensive non-contact IR temp gun with laser pointer,helps to quickly answer many questions about chassis, brakesetup and engine tunethat you cannot figure out any other way as fast without several guesses.This tool is really only needed if you are going to attend HPDE,opentrack days or autocross events.
Tokico D-Specdampers, these babys are very adjustable sothey can be setup towork well withany streetable sportsprings and camber adjusters, uses OE style mounting top and bottom and has anti-roll bar ear in OE location so is fully compatable with anything you are likely to buy for the front suspension
Camber adjusters,most willwork O.K. butthe new Steeda street strut bearings with built-in camber adjustersand Eibach/SPC camber bolts are the best of what is out there and when combined offer a very widerange of camberadjustment
Good set of sportsprings, GEEZ so many options, Steeda sport or ultra-lites for snow country carsor soft DD, Eibach Prokit or Steeda compforperformace DD street, Steeda orH&Rcomp for track cars but with H&R look out for geometry issues in front and rear axle IC/anti squat, roll understeerand travel issuesif using soft damper settings, need to trim or replace rearaxle bumpers with shorter stiffer parts and install Steeda LCA relocation brackets. With comp springs you need stiff sidewall tires with high grip compounds
STIFF adjustable Panhard bar,poly/poly bushingsforstreetor heim/heim for a track car use,higher alloysprefered over mild steel for rigidity hence handling feel is better and driver has better sensitivity to rear axle grip level
Matching Panhard bar support brace, this makes your nice stiff Panhard bar work much better through better chassis side pickup point location especiallyif using rod ends, also helpschassis last longer by spreading loads to more chassis areas
Get this done and the car will be better than 90% of the drivers out there.
HTH
ORIGINAL: Simon1
F1Fan,
How about the kit Saleen makes for the S197. Front sway bar, new front springs and shocks/struts all the way around. I go to the strip occasionally, but I'm not that interested in having a drag strip only car. I doubtI will ever road race. I do that enough at work. I'm looking for a lowered daily driver suspension. My wife doesn't drive it and I don't mind a firm ride.
I'm pretty sureI will need some camber bolts, an adjustable panhard bar and adjustable LCA's.
F1Fan,
How about the kit Saleen makes for the S197. Front sway bar, new front springs and shocks/struts all the way around. I go to the strip occasionally, but I'm not that interested in having a drag strip only car. I doubtI will ever road race. I do that enough at work. I'm looking for a lowered daily driver suspension. My wife doesn't drive it and I don't mind a firm ride.
I'm pretty sureI will need some camber bolts, an adjustable panhard bar and adjustable LCA's.
Hi Simon1,
Pass on the prepackaged suspension kits, they all suck for serious driving. You can actually assemble a much better kit on your own by picking and choosing from the best stuff out there that fits your needs and local driving conditions.My recommended core street performancesuspension setup that every carshould have before you get anyother suspension parts is asfollows:
Start here. Ideally you would have taken the same measurements with the car in stock form to compare with your inital setup after installing the springs, dampers and Panhard bar. Take plenty of notes and make drawings of how and where you measured. This will allow you to repeat the measurements and allow accurate repeatable measurements of your car. I promise you this will all be important if you get serious about improving your car's handling and cornering performance.
Once you get it all installed make sure to carefully center the rear axle using the Panhard bar adjuster.Have a basic alignment (streetsetting is -0.5 to -0.75 max. negativecamber, 0" to1/16"toe out loaded), done on the front end. Measureall fourof your lowerfront and rear control arm height pick up points on the chassis side (center of the bolts),on a level concrete floor to find basic ride height reference points. Measure the angle of the LCA's, measure theangle of the Panhard bar,measure the angle of the front control arms and if you know how, bumpsteer in 1" increments of travel front and rear. These are your starting referencepoints and with this info you can start to see what lowering the car using springs has done to mess up the geometry of the chassis and how it has altered the steering and handling traits from a stock setup.
Here is what you need:
Small notebook: personally I like them a bit biggerfor sketching andkeeping better notes on setup, temps pressure, alignment specs etc. also document anything that happened to car and what needs to be looked at.
Good 3" tire pressure gauge withlocking indicator and pressure bleeder,liquid filledis good, you reallycan't doanything right without knowing tire pressures
Inexpensive non-contact IR temp gun with laser pointer,helps to quickly answer many questions about chassis, brakesetup and engine tunethat you cannot figure out any other way as fast without several guesses.This tool is really only needed if you are going to attend HPDE,opentrack days or autocross events.
Tokico D-Specdampers, these babys are very adjustable sothey can be setup towork well withany streetable sportsprings and camber adjusters, uses OE style mounting top and bottom and has anti-roll bar ear in OE location so is fully compatable with anything you are likely to buy for the front suspension
Camber adjusters,most willwork O.K. butthe new Steeda street strut bearings with built-in camber adjustersand Eibach/SPC camber bolts are the best of what is out there and when combined offer a very widerange of camberadjustment
Good set of sportsprings, GEEZ so many options, Steeda sport or ultra-lites for snow country carsor soft DD, Eibach Prokit or Steeda compforperformace DD street, Steeda orH&Rcomp for track cars but with H&R look out for geometry issues in front and rear axle IC/anti squat, roll understeerand travel issuesif using soft damper settings, need to trim or replace rearaxle bumpers with shorter stiffer parts and install Steeda LCA relocation brackets. With comp springs you need stiff sidewall tires with high grip compounds
STIFF adjustable Panhard bar,poly/poly bushingsforstreetor heim/heim for a track car use,higher alloysprefered over mild steel for rigidity hence handling feel is better and driver has better sensitivity to rear axle grip level
Matching Panhard bar support brace, this makes your nice stiff Panhard bar work much better through better chassis side pickup point location especiallyif using rod ends, also helpschassis last longer by spreading loads to more chassis areas
Get this done and the car will be better than 90% of the drivers out there.
HTH
So I was going to go cheap and get just regular non-adjustable shocks/struts, but after thinking about it, I would like to have the ability to change the settings for drag use or track use.
I have $600 set aside for the suspension now, I figure another $600 or so, will get me the following:
Tokyo d specs, $540 I though I saw posted earlier
Springs (haven't decided what brand, probably FRPP) $250 ish
adjustable LCA's (not sure what brand either) $200 ish
adjustable pan hard $169, I thought I saw one for about that on EBAY.
camber bolts $20
I will have someone do the front springs. I'll take the whole unit out of the car and bring it over to the shop. The rest is easy.
Then this summer, adjustable rear sway bar, and LCA and panhard mounts.
I have 295/35/18's on the rear . They stick out about 1/8 inch, maybe. There is a little over 4" of clearance between the top of the tire and the fender well. I'm worried about dropping the car and having the tires hit when I hit a bump or something. What do you guys think?
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