moose_knuckle

I have been reading posts on here for awhile and finally decided to make one of my own. I want to do as much suspension work as I can with the money I will have. I got taxes back and I did well this year. All in all I have $2k- 2,300. I think I should be able to get a pretty decent suspension setup out of that but am unsure how to use the money efficiently. I will use this car mostly on the street and maybe a couple curved tracks. I have a few ideas but am open to any suggestions.

I was thinking..
Eibach pro springs
Tokico D-specs shocks/struts
Steeda Adj. panhard bar/ Brace
steeda adj. UCA
steeda LCA + reloc. brackets
and I was considering upper stut mounts because a friend had mentioned them to me, but I dunno what or if I need them.

Any ideas on what parts/brands to change or how I could utilize my money is greatly appreciated.

F1Fan

Hi moose_knuckle,

Do you have smooth roads where you live? Does it snow where you live? Are you primariliy interested in the twisty bits or are you going to spend a lot of time at the drag strip? This sort of thing helps folks guide folks looking for suspension advice. Your basic suspension parts selection looks pretty good but I havesome reservations about some of the parts you mention depending on where you live andhow you plan to drive the car.

The Pro-Kit springs are O.K. for many people but only really work well on very smooth roads and due to themuch lower ride height you really don't want to drive itwhere it snows or if you have or plan to install a body kit. The Pro-Kit springs are kind of soft and low and you botom out more than you shouldunless you have very smooth roads in your area. This means that ride is notvery good with these springs if the roads are at all bumpy. They do look good though but if this is a DD you may want to consider Steeda Sport or Ultralite springs. H&R also makes somesport springs that are not so lowbut they are a biton the softer side.

D-specs are a no-brainer fora DD street caras is the Steeda adjustable Panhard bar and matchingHD PB brace.

Regarding the Steeda adjustable UCA I highly recommend the more expensive Steeda Comp/Street adjustableUCA/UCA mount kit as this part has a longer UCA and adjustable UCA mount to take advantage of the long UCAlink. You get improved IC, better isolation with the 3-piece bushing setup they are using and a much stronger mount all rolled up in one part number. It is not a cheap item but it works pretty well with near stock NVH.

But I have a plan, you can make up some of thedifferencein price of the Comp/Street UCA kitby buying the FRPP GT500 LCA's for $100 which for a N/A motor car are more than adequate for LCA's when used in conjunction with the Steeda Comp/Street UCA/UCA mount kit. Additionally this UCA/LCA combination will be quiet with minimal NVH add to the cabin.

Steeda LCA relocation brackets are the best on the market offering the most range of adjustment. You are much more likely to be able to get your LCA's parallel to the ground for good handlingthan the next best thing which are the BMR LCA relocation brackets. You need to be very carful when installing these brackets though as they can affect your alignment if they areinstalled off by much.

The Steeda HD strut mounts are fabulous but also not inexpensive. They are very good quality and add precision to the steering that the stock strut mounts just can't provide. They are also easy to use for setting camber,serviceable and eliminate the clicking and popping so many folks find they have once they get some miles on their sport suspension with stock strut mounts. Not inexpensive but if you have had problems with the stock ones clicking and popping a good option to consider.

Are you going to be doing the installation yourself? If so you still have some more money to spend.

HTH!

Sam Strano

Yet again, I have to say that I'd be happy to help, but I'd need more information about what you want to change about how the car drives. I know what I want to change, but I'm not you and since it's your car I'd prefer to make it the best for you.

Here's the deal. Can you think of anyone here that wouldn't claim they want the car to "handle better"? Of course not, but the reality is that people have different ideas about what makes a good handling, or riding car. I can't get the sense of what you are after by e-mail. I can't ask questions, and most of all I don't see even a hint about what you'd like to change about how the car drives. And that's important, as parts are medicene for the car's ills. I'd hope you doctor wouldn't prescribe meds without asking you what's wrong, just based on the idea you'd like to feel better.

While I don't think your list is hateful, I'd change some things around brand wise (and I'm a Steeda dealer, got some stuff from them today in fact... but I sell other things and when I feel other things are appropriate I'll say so). I'd not do a few things at all (mostly the LCAbrackets and PHB brace).

F1Fan

Hey moose_knuckle,

Let's try it the Sam Strano way or what I call Nip-Tuck. Let's have a dialog here to see if we can't explore your wantson-line rather than haveyou make a long distance call to his shop so he can sell you stuff he likes in the privacy of a point to point long distance call.

What do you not like about the way your car handles dynamically? What would you change about the way it feels when at speed. What kind of drivingdo you plan and expect to participate in? What kind of cars do you have experience with? Do you have any track experience?It's not required but helps me understand where you are coming from in termsof expectations in a performance situation. Be realistic about your usage as your results will tend tobetter meet your expectations if we can make your car meetwhat you feel you would rather have. We are not so much worried about what works as what you think works.

I'm listening.

Sam don't take this the wrong way. Let's share the experience here, you can sell him anything you want to if he is willing to send you the money. I'm only in it to help.

Sam Strano

I'm not taking it the wrong way, and I hope you don't think I'm attacking you when I disagree. Frankly I think your posts, by and large are some of the consistantly good ones I find on the forums I frequent. That said, I deal with a lot of people every day, and it's pretty common that most folks don't *really know* what they want, or how things *really work*. Not everyone has your knowledge base F1Fan. And while I think I do, personally I'm not comfortable making online recommendations because frankly details matter. You and I don't come from the same background on this, and that's fine. But when I setup a car, or test and tune car, or McLaren or Ferrari test something, it's not 5 things at a time because you can't assess individual changes. Now, I'm not adverse to doing more than one item at a time, and I look very hard at the wants and needs and how we want to change the car, and apply appropriate parts. Doing things in smaller steps isn't bad, and frankly the idea of what you call "Nip-tuck" is what I call smart for the aforementioned reasons.

Completely and honestly, I really don't have the time to sit down and type a novel, and I'm usually willing to based on vague wants in the first place. I work better by phone, but I'll do what I can by e-mail.... it's just not that much because it's not a great medium for "discussion", better for opinions I think.

I'm newer here, and I don't feel an obligation to spill every ounce of knowledge I have to complete strangers. I will help, and I'm open with information. Anyone who has spoken to me, or knows me will attest to that. I'm also blunt, and straightforward. I also run a very small family business, and these days I do so alone. I'm not a big company--at all. I don't have the luxury of just typing on forums all day long, I have to do bills, paperwork, talk with people, pack boxes, and all the other day to day items that need done. I'd love to be able to just expound online about every detail or everything, it looks impressive. But I still think it's too vague.

In the end, here's the deal. I'm the little guy. I've got some pretty good knowledge, and I supply a wide range of parts. I don't just sell one or two brands. As such, I have nobody to answer to but myself and the customers. No sales quota, no set in stone brand preferences. I also have plenty of real-world results that I can point to regarding the quality of the work I do. Aside from my experience and championships, I've setup a bunch more championship winning cars ranging from MR2's to Viper's. While I'm not a road-racer (can't afford it, don't have the time), I know what's what and if anyone pays attention, a big number of top-flight road racers were (and some still are) autocrossers. I've even taught some of them how to drive.

I believe I what I do, and how I do it. The only way for someone to tell if I'm off my rocker is to let them judge for themselves. I'm happy to do that, all they need to do is pick up the phone.

F1Fan

Hi Sam,

Sorry to have come off as a butthead. I know you know your way around a chassis and I have a lot of respect for that knowledge and the mileageyou have rolled up. Ihave a hard time working it the way you like to do it and I appologize for what caneasily be seen as a disrespectful tone in my words from last night. It is amazing what a few hours of sleep can do for a person when they read what they have written in the night.

Anyway, the way I see itpeople come herelooking for adviceabout what works onthe S197 Mustang. You are correct that the people asking around here come from awiderange of driving experience withevery sort of vehicle. I like to askquestions and if they answer in a meaningful way great, I have more to go, somedon't give you much towork with though.One guy even suggested that all sports cars should ride hard because that's what his last genMustang rode like and he wanted his new Mustang to ride just like it. I couldn't even figure out what to say to help that poster.

For those folks who have no idea of what they need or want Iusually suggest they buy a core set of simple parts (usuallysome sort of appropriatesprings, adjustable dampers, camberbolts and adjustable Panhard bar/brace)thatwork universally well forfolks all over the countryand see how they like what changes in the car they makeand the way it works for their conditions. Once they have some mileage under their wheels I suggest they consider what if anynew changes they hope to makethen Iconsiderif what they want to buy will match up with what they hope to achive and tell them what I think. I have hundreds of different threads in PM(actually email mostly due to PM character count limits) conversationson this board and others where we have gone one or two rounds of changes to find what they are looking for. Most of them are happy after round one or maybe the second round of tweaks or the occasional spring change. Nobody has swapped out D-Specs yet for another brand of adjustabledamper while there have been many, many people who have moved up to D-Specs from Bilstein HD'sor other lesser brand non adjustable dampers. Also realize that a lot of people come to me privately after buying or inheriting stuff that they are unhappy with and want to know what they can do to improve the issues they have with the suspensionin the car.

It's easy to resolve most of these issues because as you say theyhave an opinion on what they wish the car did differently. I hear a lot of information from all around the country and have a good sense of what you can throw at the S197 chassis and will stick. It'seasy for me to make what may sound to youlike overbroad sweeping suggestions because I generally am working from personal experience and a pool of other people's experience thathappens to include hundreds of cars from all over the U.S.ofA. and have had huge amounts of feedback to hone my parts selections with. Yes of course details matter, especially on the track much less so on the street if the person is realistic about their DD they want to hop-up a bit.If you look at the component options and what happened when you put certain parts together setup in certain waysin certain areaswith certain roads and certain type of drivers it's not hard to build a generally good performing core set of parts, and wait for feedback and make changesfrom there.

Cheers!

Sam Strano

I too have experience with ahuge number of cars. I teach Evolution Schools, and have since 1997. Traveling around the country and driving at minimum 12 different cars every day I teach. The last few years I've not been able to teach as much because of business, and time is short. However, last year I drove about 50 different cars at schools, and one school was even @ the Chrysler Proving Grounds. Evo is also the only school certified to get onto GM Proving Grounds. That day alone, I drove 2 GM owned Solstices there for their engineers, and a mule Viper (a pre production 600 HP version) for a returning Evo student who works for SRT.

As a business owner, my name is above the door and I'm responsible for my recommendations. Nobody but me, the buck literally stops with me. So I have to be a little more careful on recommendations than someone who might just be offering free advice, or even if they do work for a parts company are just guys who work there.

I don't think there is any reason to belabor this longer. We've made our positions clear, I think. And we do have some differing opinions. That's what makes the world go 'round. One thing I'm not in favor of that I see you recommend a lot is a PHB brace. I've been working on and running PHB equipped cars long before the S197 Mustang, and have messed with them and found them to be, IMHO, of no real value. This includes trying it on an S197. And bear in mind the tires I race on, Hoosier A6's, which are the standard in lateral grip. Not unusual to see lateral G nubmers in the 1.2 range, and for more thanjust spikes,and I have the datalogs to prove it. NOTHING is going to put more lateral load into the PHB and the associated hardware than that.

I leave it to the individual to make their own decision here. And if there is anything someone wants to know, I invite them to call me and ask.

As for parts. I really don't know what F1Fan does for a living, or who he works for. It might be a parts company, and may not be. I cannot tell. I'm very upfront with what I do, and how I operate. And I carry parts and have accounts with a huge range of vendors. I try and have access to a number of product lines for the best choice. I have accounts and sell parts from companies incluidng, but not limited to (and in no particular order, just as they come to me):

Steeda, Maximum Motorsports, Koni, Tokico, Bilstein, Vogtland, H&R, Eibach, Addco, UMI, Suspension Techniques, KW, AST Suspension (who has some REALLY trick race shocks for the S197), QA1 (rarely), Edelbrock, Hawk, Brembo, PowerSlot, PowerStop, Ferodo, Performance Friction, Porterfield, Auburn Gear, Torsen, Detroit True-Trac, Eaton, Precision Gear, Hotchkis, and on and on. I'm in business, what I sell matters because I want to sell the best item(s) for the job and/or for the budget... and I don't really care what name is on it, as long as it does what I expect and need.

Sleeper_08

F1Fan & Sam

As a newbie to the suspension business I would like to thank both of you for your contributions to this forum. Obviously your perspectives, backgrounds and approaches are different but you both make a valuable contribution.

Based largely on what I have learned in this forum from yourselves and other vastly more knowledgeable than Itomorrow I am going out toorder the parts for my car. (sorry Sam as I am in Canada the complexities and costs involved in getting parts from you are too much of a hassle).

Thank you both very much for taking the time and making the effort to help the rest of us learn.