Panhard Bar
#21
I drove 20 miles on the Steeda LCA and although there was a little extra NVH vs. before (my passenger couldn't tell) I did not notice any significant degradation in ride quality. Which honestly surprised me.
#22
I would like to make a few comments.
You can see the list of mods in my sig. I am at stock ride height and run the stock wheels with 27" diameter tires. You can probably try and search some of my old posts where I talk about how the rear end is not as stable as I want and there is a lot of lateral movement when accelerating both in a straight line and through corners. The responses that I got were almost unanimous, shocks were the answer. I didn't have the budget for Koni/D-specs, Steeda competition springs, and an adj PHB to be done at one time.
I instead opted to go for LCA, PHB, PH brace, A arm brace. I had asked about bushing type and how it would affect NVH and handling. Again most responses suggested poly bushings, adj poly PHB, no PH brace or A arm brace. I rode in a friends car who had the following:
Steeda competition double adj UCA poly/rod end
Steeda adj rod/rod LCA
Steeda adj poly PHB and brace
Steeda G trac brace
He also had D specs, Steeda Competition springs, Steeda HD strut mounts, Steeda front and rear sway bars with poly bushings, and 18x9.5 Steeda Pentar wheels with 275/40/18 nittos. The rear end was very tight, clunked over bumps but was solid, sure footed, and changed direction on a dime.
After much internal debate and deciding what I wanted and most importantly what I could afford to purchase and install, I went with Spohn adj LCA poly/rod, adj PHB poly/rod, PH brace, Steeda G trac bar. This allowed me to center the rear axle which it needed. All of these are chrome moly and much lighter than stock.
These are the only suspension components I have. I immediately noticed a change in the handling. The rear was stiff and solid, the side-stepping and shifting in the back end was gone. Taking corners is much more even, its not perfect but I am still on stock sways. Wheel hop is gone on dry pavement and nearly gone on wet, still on stock tire side wall height. There is no clunking, squeeking, nothing, there is no new NVH from the rear. There is new added vibrations that I can feel in the footwells which is from the G trac bar, there is no bushings with this bar.
Therefore, I feel my combination and choosing poly/rod parts is the best set up for aggressive street driving. The friend from above rode in the car after the new parts and now wants to change to the same poly/rod blend for his LCA and PHB.
I think these mods have a large effect, shocks aren't the only thing that can fix this. I can't wait to put on the springs and shocks and sways as they will make the car that much better.
You can see the list of mods in my sig. I am at stock ride height and run the stock wheels with 27" diameter tires. You can probably try and search some of my old posts where I talk about how the rear end is not as stable as I want and there is a lot of lateral movement when accelerating both in a straight line and through corners. The responses that I got were almost unanimous, shocks were the answer. I didn't have the budget for Koni/D-specs, Steeda competition springs, and an adj PHB to be done at one time.
I instead opted to go for LCA, PHB, PH brace, A arm brace. I had asked about bushing type and how it would affect NVH and handling. Again most responses suggested poly bushings, adj poly PHB, no PH brace or A arm brace. I rode in a friends car who had the following:
Steeda competition double adj UCA poly/rod end
Steeda adj rod/rod LCA
Steeda adj poly PHB and brace
Steeda G trac brace
He also had D specs, Steeda Competition springs, Steeda HD strut mounts, Steeda front and rear sway bars with poly bushings, and 18x9.5 Steeda Pentar wheels with 275/40/18 nittos. The rear end was very tight, clunked over bumps but was solid, sure footed, and changed direction on a dime.
After much internal debate and deciding what I wanted and most importantly what I could afford to purchase and install, I went with Spohn adj LCA poly/rod, adj PHB poly/rod, PH brace, Steeda G trac bar. This allowed me to center the rear axle which it needed. All of these are chrome moly and much lighter than stock.
These are the only suspension components I have. I immediately noticed a change in the handling. The rear was stiff and solid, the side-stepping and shifting in the back end was gone. Taking corners is much more even, its not perfect but I am still on stock sways. Wheel hop is gone on dry pavement and nearly gone on wet, still on stock tire side wall height. There is no clunking, squeeking, nothing, there is no new NVH from the rear. There is new added vibrations that I can feel in the footwells which is from the G trac bar, there is no bushings with this bar.
Therefore, I feel my combination and choosing poly/rod parts is the best set up for aggressive street driving. The friend from above rode in the car after the new parts and now wants to change to the same poly/rod blend for his LCA and PHB.
I think these mods have a large effect, shocks aren't the only thing that can fix this. I can't wait to put on the springs and shocks and sways as they will make the car that much better.
Last edited by UrS4; 11-19-2008 at 06:06 PM.
#23
I know that this is getting a bit OT now but I didn't realize how lowering a car really screws with the handling.
http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/t_suspension.htm
Makes me want to lower it even less than before. I forgot how the front end is affected and not just the rear.
http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/t_suspension.htm
Makes me want to lower it even less than before. I forgot how the front end is affected and not just the rear.
#24
I know that this is getting a bit OT now but I didn't realize how lowering a car really screws with the handling.
http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/t_suspension.htm
Makes me want to lower it even less than before. I forgot how the front end is affected and not just the rear.
http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/t_suspension.htm
Makes me want to lower it even less than before. I forgot how the front end is affected and not just the rear.
#25
Wow what's a noob like me to do. A million different conflicting opinions on this subject. Modaddict highly recommends the PHB even for straight line handling. Says it helps keep the rear end from favoring one side or another during the squat.
#26
The differences between an aftermarket PHB bar and the stock bar are mainly that the aftermarket bar has stiffer bushings, i.e. poly instead of rubber. As the loads on the bar when travelling in a straight line are significantly lower than when going through a corner I doubt if even the stiffer bushings have much of a noticeable effect. IMHO the lower weight and higher stiffness of the aftermarket bar would offer no noticable benefit in a straight line.
#27
That PHB gives you the ability to center the axle in the chassis. Or intentionally offset it, for that matter. If you eliminate the friction between the poly pieces and the brackets, it will also move a bit more smoothly. But otherwise, a PHB is simply a straight link between two pivots and what's in the middle doesn't matter a whole lot as long as it doesn't "un-adjust" itself or create a place where buckling is more easy to come by than in the OE PHB.
5 lbs both may and may not help ET's. 5 lb less is worth a few milliseconds, but losing that 5 lbs directly off the drive wheels might hurt you by a few (so I'd call it a wash).
The brace has no true suspension function, and it does not carry loads in its "weak" directions. It doesn't move at all. All it has to do is distribute some of the cornering load across the car and keep the chassis side bracket from bending. Based on its attachments being bolted, it doesn't contribute materially to chassis torsional stiffness. A stiffer brace might improve lateral axle location in a hard left-hand corner by a couple thousandths of an inch, but if you're a sensitive enough driver to notice that you should head straight for a Watts link and be done with it.
The only ways that you're likely to fail the OE PHB brace are (a) hit a curb with the passenger side wheel, and (b) get involved in some "rubbin' is racin" Saturday night circle track activity. In either case, a bent/buckled PHB brace would be one of your little worries.
Norm
5 lbs both may and may not help ET's. 5 lb less is worth a few milliseconds, but losing that 5 lbs directly off the drive wheels might hurt you by a few (so I'd call it a wash).
The brace has no true suspension function, and it does not carry loads in its "weak" directions. It doesn't move at all. All it has to do is distribute some of the cornering load across the car and keep the chassis side bracket from bending. Based on its attachments being bolted, it doesn't contribute materially to chassis torsional stiffness. A stiffer brace might improve lateral axle location in a hard left-hand corner by a couple thousandths of an inch, but if you're a sensitive enough driver to notice that you should head straight for a Watts link and be done with it.
The only ways that you're likely to fail the OE PHB brace are (a) hit a curb with the passenger side wheel, and (b) get involved in some "rubbin' is racin" Saturday night circle track activity. In either case, a bent/buckled PHB brace would be one of your little worries.
Norm
Last edited by Norm Peterson; 11-20-2008 at 07:32 AM.
#28
First off all you don't have a Fox or SN95 car.. you have an S197 which is completely different and has way better geometry than those old Fairmount based setups dating from the 70's.
Second. A PHB resists lateral movement. The brace simply adds support to the body mount (and should be there). The car already has a PHB on it, and it's even tubular, and uses pretty small bushings (less rubber to deflect). There are some notches in the bushing to allow more free movement up and down, and that can also allow a bit more laterally, but not tons. I'd love for someone to show me a help in ET from only a PHB change if the car isn't a mess leaving all crossed up and so in the first place.
Second. A PHB resists lateral movement. The brace simply adds support to the body mount (and should be there). The car already has a PHB on it, and it's even tubular, and uses pretty small bushings (less rubber to deflect). There are some notches in the bushing to allow more free movement up and down, and that can also allow a bit more laterally, but not tons. I'd love for someone to show me a help in ET from only a PHB change if the car isn't a mess leaving all crossed up and so in the first place.
#29
#30
I am glad that I found this thread as you all have shared a ton of great info.
UrS4, I went to the Spohn website and think I found the same PHB & LCA with poly/rod combination under these p/n - PHB (M5-106) & LCA (M5-206). These look right? Asking because I am really intrigued by the lack of additional NVH with the poly/rod set-up.
I want a good quality set-up that will allow for adjustments as I do plan to do a slight lowering (Steeda Ultralites) along with solid handling improvements, but also do not want to pay for it with tons of new noises, squeaks, etc.
Anyone know much about Granatelli pieces??
Thanks!
UrS4, I went to the Spohn website and think I found the same PHB & LCA with poly/rod combination under these p/n - PHB (M5-106) & LCA (M5-206). These look right? Asking because I am really intrigued by the lack of additional NVH with the poly/rod set-up.
I want a good quality set-up that will allow for adjustments as I do plan to do a slight lowering (Steeda Ultralites) along with solid handling improvements, but also do not want to pay for it with tons of new noises, squeaks, etc.
Anyone know much about Granatelli pieces??
Thanks!