Lets talk about Watts-link suspensions
4th Gear Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,700
From: CA
If you put a watts link on your street car you may as well have bought an automatic transmission too. That's easier to drive as well. ; )
In a case like Sam's where he stated he will use one in ESP - that is different. He is competing. If it's an advantage and class rules allow it by all means you do it. You will notice Argonaut is selling a bunch of parts now because he went beyond class limitations on parts. Keep that in mind too.
The main issue I have with it is really 2 things -
1. I think it is a "crutch" for a lesser experienced driver, just like a guy heading out in HPDE 1 with R-comp tires. You should learn to drive first without it.
2. The guys that are strictly street drivers that do the "spirited driving" - are doing **** that is unsafe, illegal, and usually beyond their capability. I think it builds too much confidence. Even Lewis Hamilton spins. Sooner or later you will **** up and/or not be able to save it - and you hit ****. Not cool when it could be innocent people and/or property. Stick with a panhard bar and learn to drive around and within it's limitations. You will be rewarded for it later I promise. There's a big disparity between becoming "faster" and becoming"fast".
As far as the comment about leather and horsepower not being "needed" either, I disagree with the analogy. Those are both instantly noticeable and gratifying mods/options. A watts link will really only be noticed by the driver - not passengers or passers-by. $900-$1300 would pay for a lot of better mods.
I'm not saying anyone's opinions are necessarily wrong or that mine is right. I do feel though that many are misinformed and/or misjudged.
In a case like Sam's where he stated he will use one in ESP - that is different. He is competing. If it's an advantage and class rules allow it by all means you do it. You will notice Argonaut is selling a bunch of parts now because he went beyond class limitations on parts. Keep that in mind too.
The main issue I have with it is really 2 things -
1. I think it is a "crutch" for a lesser experienced driver, just like a guy heading out in HPDE 1 with R-comp tires. You should learn to drive first without it.
2. The guys that are strictly street drivers that do the "spirited driving" - are doing **** that is unsafe, illegal, and usually beyond their capability. I think it builds too much confidence. Even Lewis Hamilton spins. Sooner or later you will **** up and/or not be able to save it - and you hit ****. Not cool when it could be innocent people and/or property. Stick with a panhard bar and learn to drive around and within it's limitations. You will be rewarded for it later I promise. There's a big disparity between becoming "faster" and becoming"fast".
As far as the comment about leather and horsepower not being "needed" either, I disagree with the analogy. Those are both instantly noticeable and gratifying mods/options. A watts link will really only be noticed by the driver - not passengers or passers-by. $900-$1300 would pay for a lot of better mods.
I'm not saying anyone's opinions are necessarily wrong or that mine is right. I do feel though that many are misinformed and/or misjudged.
Former Sponsor
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,936
I think it's a bit of a stretch to compare a Watts link to an Automatic transmission. Having an easier to drive car, or one you have better control over isn't a bad thing...
I can't imagine anyone who'd like their car to be a hairy-scary, all over the place ride vs. predicatable, stable and confidence inspiring.
Let's be blunt, not one of use *had* to modify our cars in any way. I expect most folks do things to make the car better, or more to their liking. While I certainly respect your opinion on the matter, the hard facts are that a Watts link doesn't have certain inherent design flaws that PHB's do. If you don't care about those then be all means you don't have to run a Watts link. Having driven cars both ways I do prefer the more obident feel and response of the geometrically superior Watts linkage that isn't subject to the arc, in flux RC heights, and jacking effect on the body. Now, admittedly I run a softer the setup than many which means I get more body movement and so I might well see a greater gain vs. a PHB. And this gets back to the fact the more dynamic the movement of the axle the more you want a Watts vs. a PHB. The stiffer the car is, the less difference it makes. Basically what I'm saying it's as useful (and maybe even to a greater degree) on a street car as on a track car.
I can't imagine anyone who'd like their car to be a hairy-scary, all over the place ride vs. predicatable, stable and confidence inspiring.
Let's be blunt, not one of use *had* to modify our cars in any way. I expect most folks do things to make the car better, or more to their liking. While I certainly respect your opinion on the matter, the hard facts are that a Watts link doesn't have certain inherent design flaws that PHB's do. If you don't care about those then be all means you don't have to run a Watts link. Having driven cars both ways I do prefer the more obident feel and response of the geometrically superior Watts linkage that isn't subject to the arc, in flux RC heights, and jacking effect on the body. Now, admittedly I run a softer the setup than many which means I get more body movement and so I might well see a greater gain vs. a PHB. And this gets back to the fact the more dynamic the movement of the axle the more you want a Watts vs. a PHB. The stiffer the car is, the less difference it makes. Basically what I'm saying it's as useful (and maybe even to a greater degree) on a street car as on a track car.
6th Gear Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,635
From: state of confusion
Rodeo - I'll agree to the point that "easier to drive" probably shouldn't be a reason for buying a WL for a car that's strictly street-driven. But truly buying one for a more refined "feel" would be a legitimate reason, in much the same sense as why other people buy different shifters or perhaps "Max Performance" tires vs "High Performance All-season) or any number of other mods that you can't (or shouldn't) really explore the full benefit of outside of a dragstrip, track or auto-X lot.
If it even makes it to my list of reasons for getting or doing any mod at all (and I can't offhand think of anything I'd do where it would), what passers-by think has to be in the bottom slot. I really don't care if they look right past the car and never see it. My passengers are entitled to be at least reasonably comfortable, but that's where their input stops. I'm secure enough with my own decisions that something only I would notice is reward enough.
Dunno, that may be more extreme than what motivates most folks to modify.
Norm
If it even makes it to my list of reasons for getting or doing any mod at all (and I can't offhand think of anything I'd do where it would), what passers-by think has to be in the bottom slot. I really don't care if they look right past the car and never see it. My passengers are entitled to be at least reasonably comfortable, but that's where their input stops. I'm secure enough with my own decisions that something only I would notice is reward enough.
Dunno, that may be more extreme than what motivates most folks to modify.
Norm
Last edited by Norm Peterson; Dec 18, 2008 at 03:09 PM. Reason: I type too slow
4th Gear Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,692
From: Ontario, Canada
If any one complains in my car, which is really stiff, I remind them that their alternatives are to walk or take a bus!By the way if Santa is reading the Fays2 Watt's link is at the top of my wish list and I've been a good boy.