so where this hooks up, does it have to clear the exhaust? i have the sts twin turbo kit and the exhaust and return pipes hang REALLY low off the car. would it have clearance issues? just want to know so i can either put it up on my wish list or completely take it off

 

It clears the stock, or any exhaust that runs like stock with no problem. I would love to tell you there is no issue, but really I don't know either way as the design was done on a stock car, not one with a STS twin-turbo setup.

There is a bit less room under the passenger side axle as that's where one of the arms runs and clamps on to the axle housing. Room on top and on the left is either unchanged or better than stock since the upper PHB brace is removed as the link frame then bolts those mounts together.

 

seriously, dude, the word "consensus" does not exist in this section.

it's worse then the u.s. congress, but definitely more entertaining.

 

Worse than the US congress?
YOU CAN'T BEAT THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And yes, we're definitely more entertaining, lol.

 

There is too much variation in the way we drive, skill levels and how "enthusiastically" we drive, the roads that we drive on, and in individual subjective preferences involving "feel" to ever get an overall consensus within what is really a pretty small group of people. Even the people who generally agree in principle do not always agree in details or even in how to arrive at the exact same detail-level choices. No different here than on other enthusiast suspension/chassis/handling forums.


Norm

 

Well said Norm. Most people would find my car unacceptable as a daily driver but for me the comprises made for the street are well worth it when blasting through a corner on a race track hotly in pursuit of a car/driver combination closely matched to mine.

 

I have been following this thread for a while now and done some MAJOR research on the Fays2 WL. I have not read anything negative by an actual end-user, only speculation by some who don't believe in it's design as it is not traditional.

Not trying to be a Fays pimp, but if I owned an S197 I would not hesitate for a second to purchase one for my ride.

Jazzer from the FWIW dept.

.... as you were

DOUBLE EDIT: I was strongly considering a Fays2 for replacement of my PHB, but think I have changed my mind. I just crawled under there to check some things for upcoming T-56 install, and saw something interesting. As y'all know, the S197 PHB is higher on the body end, than axle end. This, of course, creates some jacking (as I understand it, so please correct me if wrong) more on the RH turn, then left. My Griggs bar is actually LOWER on the body side, than axle, due to frame extended about 5" below body. It is the opposite to the S197, but approx. the same angle. Seems to me, the 2.5" difference or so would be about level on pretty hard RH turn so jacking would be kept to a minimum. On a LF turn, the body end is lower to start with, so would also be minimal.

Am I understanding/explaining this correctly? I realize I still get lateral movement and certainly not as good as a WL, but I don't think I will personally see the benifits that an S197 would.

TRIPPLE EDIT: Is my RC now lower due to axle end of PHB being 1.5" lower than center-line and body end another 1" lower than that?

Things that make The Jazzer go hmmmmmmm......

 

I really like that Fays2 setup. looks beefy, has an adjustable RC, and is reasonably priced. I want one, but have other things I need worse

 

A PHB should be level @ ride height to minimize the lateral movement. The body side lower than the axle mount is exactly what happens in F-bodies and S197's when you lower them (the are level stock). Apparently your Griggs setup is means to be @ stock height as well, and I'm guessing your drop is about 1.5" from stock which is why your PHB body mount is 1.5" lower as well.

You RC height still changes, and it still drops when turning left and rises when turning right. A PHB is asymmetric if can't say level with the axle when the body moves which is why the RC changes are the body moves and rolls (and why I said that the stiffer a car, the less it rolls and moves up and down, the less "bad" a PHB is). But it's never perfect.

In fact, quoting Carroll Smith again "...the Panhard Rod should be as long as possible, and should be horizontal at ride height". Well, we have the long part nailed pretty well, but only stock cars that came with PHB's (or where aftermarket PHB's are designed to be stock ride height) have level arrangements. And unless you have an adjustable height PHB mount on the body side at least you can't level it and the lower you go on that type of adjuster the lower the RC height overall.

 

Funny, I had always thought it was level at ride height, and stated as much in the past. I am going to look again and make sure I saw this correctly, cuz it wouldn't make sense Griggs would make a mistake in this way. I was on my side at the time and my have typed too soon, so will check it out again

I know it is about as long as it can be as it terminates about 3" short of shock mount and opposite end is directly below frame. I just can't pull the trigger on cutting that PHB frame off of my ride at this time. No matter how much I think about it, I am just not comfortable doing so. I have learned in the many, many years of modding stuff, cars and otherwise, I need to take heed of my internal warning systems.

I do want to thank you Sam for your help, advice and input on this subject as of late. It has not gone without my appreciation and will hit you up if I decide to bite the bullet on this mod

Jazzer