My stage 3 cams are in, and my"after" dyno tunewill occur tomorrow or Thursday, perhaps Friday at the latest. I'll post results Saturday at the latest.

 

Dude 40hp from stage 3 cams is rather pathethic. I have seen 32 hp gains on 2 litter engines on stage 3 cams, on a little *** 2 litter 4 banger and you tell me that 40hp for a 4.6L is impressive come on guys get on with the program.

Andrew

 

Jesus guys - stop believing everything the aftermarket companies and magazines are feeding you. [:@]

First of all, only 1 post made a reference to the clearance issues and VCT that make a larger grind difficult. This is the only reason there aren't any serious custom grinds available yet, but, trust me, there are companies working on it and there will be, but right now, all of the available cams are a joke - pure and simple. They are just about IDENTICAL grind to stock and the lift is slightly adjusted in the 'STAGES' to give lope - THAT'S IT. You are paying for a cool sound. If you're cool with that and just want the sound, then by all means, buy them and be happy but don't expect some magic to happen or expect the 3V to respond like the LS motors do with cam swaps - won't happen.

Second, the main reson for a cam swap on other motors is to increase your rpm band and flow. YOU DON'T NEED TO DO THAT WITH THESE STOCKERS. For all it's shortcommings in the shotblock, Ford did a great job with the cams. It, and the 8.8 rear are probably the two best parts on the car. This motor loves to spin and once you build your bottom end, spinning the stock cams up in the 7500 range is not a problem and they handle it just fine.

Most of you guys like the magazines so you'll recognize names like Justin Burcham, PowerHouse Performance, HPP Racing, Livernois Motorsports, Sutton, JDM, Lethal, David Beyer, Al Papito Racing (boss 330), Kenne Bell, ST Motorsports, etc.

Guess what? Every single one of these guys and shops are running the stock cams in their S197's. If the fastest guys in the country are all running the stock cams, then use your head - if the aftermarkets were better - don't you think they would be using them? Case closed.

Remember that dyno and especially flow benches vary drastically. A dyno doesn't mean anything. So what if you make 500 rwhp on a dyno, doesn't mean your car is fast, in fact, most guys who chase the dyno numbers...aren't.

All of the guys with aftermarket cams are just average joes on stock motors pushing maybe in the low 400 rwhp range at best. You guys don't need cams number 1, and number 2, if you got some real power (550+) you'll find out real quick why the aftermarket cams don't work as well in Higher HP applications over the stockers (for what's available now) as soon as you tried to spin them past 7K.

Forget the cams, get a good P/P job on your heads with some oversize inconel vales with titanium springs and retainers. You money is much wiser spent there IMO.

 

im not sure, but last time i checked, 500 to the wheels was considered pretty fast..... and of course we dont just base the numbers off of what advertising we see... there are dyno sheets on this website that show that cams actually do make power...?

 

im not sure, but last time i checked, 500 to the wheels was considered pretty fast..... and of course we dont just base the numbers off of what advertising we see... there are dyno sheets on this website that show that cams actually do make power...?

 

Well, there's power (Forced induction)and then there's N/A (naturally asperated)...Cams don't help if your gonna go big F/I because your stocks are almost maxed out powerband wise. fordfanboy's point was the gains of aftermarket cams don't warrant the performance or price. Ford's R/D was on point with the performance end of the cams on these cars. 40 hp is kinda low compared to other motors, but to each his own. The SOHC motor doesn't have room for improvement on the camshaft end currently (like the pushrod used to)

 

You hit the nail on the head and because most of you are forgetting one of the golden dyno rules - JUST BECAUSE IT MAKES MORE HP ON THE DYNO, DOESN'T MEAN YOU ARE FASTER.

Flow, torque, rev = faster

Despite even getting 40 rwhp (which I don't believe BTW), I would be more interested to see an ET slip from runs made with only the cam install as a difference.

The fastest N/A guy I know of is Ron (spyder) and he is knocking on the door of the 11's with some SERIOUS weight shaving. For the money spent on cams, I cannot stress enough it is better spent on a good P/P job on your heads.

 

Despite the fact I never said 500 to the wheels wasn't fast. I only recall referring to 550+ as 'SERIOUS'. I ran 526 rwhp on the stock motor for over a year with no problems and I was very fast. But I'm not going to get into a debate with you over what I know from experience and what you read in a magazine...The fact you have shorty headers and woofers in your sig tells me all I need to know about your opinion.

 

FYI
Brenspeed claims 38 whp with a LARGER T.B. so the bbk TB helped achieve the 38 whp. A sick joke for over $2kworth of work (shop install & tune)

 

I'm an old weekend racer and motor guy, and frankly, I'm just getting a feel for these4.6liters. The 2005 was my first and 97 my second late model Mustang (both in the last two years). Not too much lore about the S197 is availableexcept the articles we read in the mags you mention, folks we meet in clubs or shows, and through our speed shops. My tuner, one of the guys you mighthaveread about in MM&FF, or perhaps 5.0, thinks these motors are pretty damn good from the factory, and if you listen to him, heads are a waste on these motor as far as bang for the buck. So are delete plates and the throttle bodies. But every little bit tends to help just a bit, and some folks are content with a slow buildup, and others just dump a load of cash on a power add. I'm in the former category by preference.Anyhow, the tunercurious about the cams since he's not had an opportunity to dyno tune before and after. We'll see how that helps or hinders at the track, and make adjustments if necessary. Also note that Sutton, who you mention, have been touting the gains with cams here on the internet and also in a recent article in either 5.0 or MM&FF.

So, given those sources and the wisdom we get from them, I'm a bit confused about your response about camsbeing a waste on street cars, as the evidence seems to indicate there are some nominal gains to be had, although at a steep price. And the recommendation with the heads is puzzling: everything I've seen to date suggests they provide a slight 10-13hp increase. Have you seen other more interesting figures somewhere?

Just curious man...

John