ETHONAL BAD
08-28-2007, 10:44 PM
#31
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Now in Sunny SOCAL
Posts: 1,308
RE: ETHONAL BAD
You can run it if you have your car updated to do it. There is an article in one of the Stang magazines showing a car that had it done. It takes bigger injectors and a larger fuel pump along with a special tune to make it happen. Also remember, your car will burn about 50% more fuel.
ORIGINAL: GT Bob
E85 is a blend of fuel, not the name of straight ethanol. Personally, I would give anything to be able to run it in my stang... I can already hear people going "why the heck would ya say that?". Simple... It's 115 octaine, and costs less than $3.00 a gallon. Anyone here checked the price of Cam2 110 or 115 octaine lately?
Also, for it's corrosive nature, in older vehicles, it will eat seals and gasketsfaster than twinkies get eaten at a Jenny Craig convention unless those seals have been replaced in the last few years. It's also not very carberator friendly due to poor atomization at lower fuel pressures. Most newer vehicles that aren't designed for E85(and especially ones that were manufactured after the MTBE ban) can handle a tank here and there with no major issues BUT YOU WILL KILL THE MOTOR IF YOU RUN ITCONSTANTLY. Keep in mind, that your fueling while running it will be WAY off. E85 does not burn like gasoline, and your AFR's need to be very very different.
My next project that is Chevy powered is going to be one of those LSx based 5.3 liter engines that are flex fuel capable, running about 25 or 30 pounds of boost andfeed it nothing but E85, and I'm going to stuff it into something that is in the Sub 3000 pound range.
[sm=gears.gif]
E85 is a blend of fuel, not the name of straight ethanol. Personally, I would give anything to be able to run it in my stang... I can already hear people going "why the heck would ya say that?". Simple... It's 115 octaine, and costs less than $3.00 a gallon. Anyone here checked the price of Cam2 110 or 115 octaine lately?
Also, for it's corrosive nature, in older vehicles, it will eat seals and gasketsfaster than twinkies get eaten at a Jenny Craig convention unless those seals have been replaced in the last few years. It's also not very carberator friendly due to poor atomization at lower fuel pressures. Most newer vehicles that aren't designed for E85(and especially ones that were manufactured after the MTBE ban) can handle a tank here and there with no major issues BUT YOU WILL KILL THE MOTOR IF YOU RUN ITCONSTANTLY. Keep in mind, that your fueling while running it will be WAY off. E85 does not burn like gasoline, and your AFR's need to be very very different.
My next project that is Chevy powered is going to be one of those LSx based 5.3 liter engines that are flex fuel capable, running about 25 or 30 pounds of boost andfeed it nothing but E85, and I'm going to stuff it into something that is in the Sub 3000 pound range.
[sm=gears.gif]
08-28-2007, 10:57 PM
#32
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location:
Posts: 484
RE: ETHONAL BAD
ORIGINAL: owero01
Leave Walmart and go to BP. I only use BP or Exxon period. Not taking the chance on WAWA, Walmart, COSTCO, etc.
Leave Walmart and go to BP. I only use BP or Exxon period. Not taking the chance on WAWA, Walmart, COSTCO, etc.
08-29-2007, 12:45 AM
#33
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 23
RE: ETHONAL BAD
Here in the plains states, there are a bunch of Ethanol plants being built to produce gasohol and E85. This is one of the biggest scams to come down the pike.
Ethanol is pure grain alchohol (Everclear) and they put 15% gas (naptha) in it to keep people from drinking it.
But the problem is far worse - currently Gasohol (10%-15% Ethanol)and E85 are cheap because the government is subsidising production to hide the actual costs - currently E85 uses more energy (BTUs) to produce and distribute than you get out of it in your engine.
Consider:
Corn production - planting equipment, fertilizer, herbicides, insecticides, culitivating equipment, harvest and transportation to the still - all use petroleum products and fuels.
Ethanol production from corn - The BTUs required from natural gas or electricity to ferment and distill the alcohol is greater than the BTUs contained in the alchohol produced.
Transportation to distribution - has to be done by truck because Ethanol cannot be piped for long distances, because;
Ethanol is Hydroscopic - it absorbs water from atmosphere and surrounding sources which means it is easily contaminated. Also, it cannot be stored for long periods in unsealed containers (tanks).
The Ethanol production is raising the price of corn, which is a primary food source (how smart is it to burn food in our cars?), as the demand for corn goes up, the price goes up (economics 101) causing the price of beef, pork and chicken to go up. As the price of corn increases, farmers switch from other crops to corn, causing the price of the other crops to increase (less supply).
As noted in other posts, due to the lower BTU contentin Ethanol than in gasoline, fuel economy goes way down, so the government subsidised savings dissapear quickly. On a trip through Nebraska in an '05 Focus ZX3, my mileage droped from 28 mpg to 25 mpg with gasohol (10%), price difference was about $.03/gal.
Finally, as noted above, Alchohol is hydroscopic and absorbs water from the air, so if you drive your car only occaisonally the performance will deteriorate, and the water can damage your engine.
I apologize for the rant and long post, but the whole alchohol fuel issue is nuts.
Cliff
Ethanol is pure grain alchohol (Everclear) and they put 15% gas (naptha) in it to keep people from drinking it.
But the problem is far worse - currently Gasohol (10%-15% Ethanol)and E85 are cheap because the government is subsidising production to hide the actual costs - currently E85 uses more energy (BTUs) to produce and distribute than you get out of it in your engine.
Consider:
Corn production - planting equipment, fertilizer, herbicides, insecticides, culitivating equipment, harvest and transportation to the still - all use petroleum products and fuels.
Ethanol production from corn - The BTUs required from natural gas or electricity to ferment and distill the alcohol is greater than the BTUs contained in the alchohol produced.
Transportation to distribution - has to be done by truck because Ethanol cannot be piped for long distances, because;
Ethanol is Hydroscopic - it absorbs water from atmosphere and surrounding sources which means it is easily contaminated. Also, it cannot be stored for long periods in unsealed containers (tanks).
The Ethanol production is raising the price of corn, which is a primary food source (how smart is it to burn food in our cars?), as the demand for corn goes up, the price goes up (economics 101) causing the price of beef, pork and chicken to go up. As the price of corn increases, farmers switch from other crops to corn, causing the price of the other crops to increase (less supply).
As noted in other posts, due to the lower BTU contentin Ethanol than in gasoline, fuel economy goes way down, so the government subsidised savings dissapear quickly. On a trip through Nebraska in an '05 Focus ZX3, my mileage droped from 28 mpg to 25 mpg with gasohol (10%), price difference was about $.03/gal.
Finally, as noted above, Alchohol is hydroscopic and absorbs water from the air, so if you drive your car only occaisonally the performance will deteriorate, and the water can damage your engine.
I apologize for the rant and long post, but the whole alchohol fuel issue is nuts.
Cliff
08-29-2007, 03:41 AM
#35
Multi-Tasking Moderator!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Detroit Rock City!
Posts: 15,618
RE: ETHONAL BAD
Here is one for you....Friend has a GMC Tahoe fully loaded and can run E85. Now he always fills up at the local shell (never uses E85) and the SUV has about 3000 miles on it (it is less than a year old) and is under a GM bumper to bumper warranty. Well 3 of the injectors and the fuel pump and the lines needed to be "de"-gunked from what GM claims was "Bad" gas. Not covered under warranty at the stealership that he bought the car from. He could have just had the car towed somewhere else and possibly had a better outcome but he is a busy working individual that like many of us and has no time for bull crap! He did get insurance to cover it and only pay his 500 dollar deductible.(thanks to his girlfriend in the insurance business). Total cost for the work inc labor 3000 dollars! No guarantee that it won't happen again and his advice to all on this forum.....KEEP ALL YOUR RECEIPTS FOR GAS AND HAVE A GREAT LAWYER!!! to pursue the gas station that gave the bad gas. Even then it is corporate vs. one person and they have more cash to throw at any problem thatcomes there way. Of course the gas station denied everything and it is really hard to prove which gas station did it unless you go to the same place each and every time. Scares the crap out of me when I think that it could happen to me or any of us mustang loving people. Just something to think about.......Later J
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