Simple problem, not so simple solution =(
02-06-2005, 07:20 PM
#22
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RE: Simple problem, not so simple solution =(
first they don't change the sock on the fuel filter on tune ups...I think you may have a partially clogged also the only fuel injecting cleaner I know that work is some from BG PRODUCTS it;s like 16.00 a can
02-06-2005, 07:21 PM
#23
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Join Date: Jul 2003
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RE: Simple problem, not so simple solution =(
BG Fuel Injection System Cleaner
Part No. 210 BG Fuel Injection System Cleaner is a specially formulated blend of solvents and high-molecular-weight dispersants and deposit control additives which will quickly, effectively and safely clean fuel injectors and help remove upper engine deposits. This product is designed to be used with the BG 9210 tool (shown above) and BG 44K® Advanced Formula (PN 208-shown below). BG Fuel Injection System Cleaner contains a fluidizer oil and deposit control additives which "pre-soak" rock-hard valve deposits. This allows the powerful cleaning ingredients in BG 44K Advanced Formula to provide even more effective clean-up. Not harmful to any fuel system components including gaskets, hoses, metals, fuel tank bladders, fuel pumps, O-rings, etc. This product is a part of the BG TDC® program.
[IMG]local://upfiles/1534/4A4424DEC9D04F2F8E5CBEE990A4A4BD.jpg[/IMG]
Part No. 210 BG Fuel Injection System Cleaner is a specially formulated blend of solvents and high-molecular-weight dispersants and deposit control additives which will quickly, effectively and safely clean fuel injectors and help remove upper engine deposits. This product is designed to be used with the BG 9210 tool (shown above) and BG 44K® Advanced Formula (PN 208-shown below). BG Fuel Injection System Cleaner contains a fluidizer oil and deposit control additives which "pre-soak" rock-hard valve deposits. This allows the powerful cleaning ingredients in BG 44K Advanced Formula to provide even more effective clean-up. Not harmful to any fuel system components including gaskets, hoses, metals, fuel tank bladders, fuel pumps, O-rings, etc. This product is a part of the BG TDC® program.
[IMG]local://upfiles/1534/4A4424DEC9D04F2F8E5CBEE990A4A4BD.jpg[/IMG]
02-07-2005, 09:44 PM
#25
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mt. Prospect, IL
Posts: 11
RE: Simple problem, not so simple solution =(
Hey guys,
Im a GM tech. Being 19 going on 20 I'm not the most experienced out there, but i can defiantely suprise most people.
So just reading the thread and backing up and looking at the big picture, heres how I'd diagnose your problem:
Your car runs and runs well after it starts right?
If so, you just eliminated anything in the starting system. You can also rule out fuel injector cleaner. If your car runs fine after it starts, the injectors are not the problem. By the way 99% of the bottle injector cleaner is preventative and does not solve any injector problems you would have. The only way you can clean out a clogged injector is with a very potent, pressurized cleaner. At my dealership, we use GM Top Engine cleaner mixed with gas (90% gas/10% cleaner) in a special unit that uses shop air pressure regualted to about 50 psi. You block off the lines to the tank and pull the fuel pump relay and run the car off this cleaning apparatus. You can crank the psi a little higher to try to clear a really stuck injector, but if it wont clear it needs to be replaced.
Okay so back to your problem, my next guess was fuel pressure regualtor, that often floods the engine and would cause a hard start.
Fuel system resitriction such as the sock filter at the pickup or a clogged fuel filter is also a great guess, but performance would really noticably suffer if the restriction was bad enough to cause a hard start condition.
My next guess would be the IAC system (Idle Air Control). I don't know enough about 5.0's to know if they use such a system but if the IAC motor were to be stuck closed, it would not get enough air into the cylinders and cause a hard start.
Like I said, I don't know a lot about Fords yet, but I'm learning. I'm looking to buy a '91-'93 5.0 LX Hatch real soon so then i will really be able to know what I'm talking about.
Remember and engine needs 3 things basic things to run: Air, Fuel, Spark. Without one of the 3 it aint gonna work. Also, too much air (vacuum leak), or too much fuel (bad fuel pressure regulator) will make it hard to start or run like crap.
I hope I was able to help a little.
Later dudes
Im a GM tech. Being 19 going on 20 I'm not the most experienced out there, but i can defiantely suprise most people.
So just reading the thread and backing up and looking at the big picture, heres how I'd diagnose your problem:
Your car runs and runs well after it starts right?
If so, you just eliminated anything in the starting system. You can also rule out fuel injector cleaner. If your car runs fine after it starts, the injectors are not the problem. By the way 99% of the bottle injector cleaner is preventative and does not solve any injector problems you would have. The only way you can clean out a clogged injector is with a very potent, pressurized cleaner. At my dealership, we use GM Top Engine cleaner mixed with gas (90% gas/10% cleaner) in a special unit that uses shop air pressure regualted to about 50 psi. You block off the lines to the tank and pull the fuel pump relay and run the car off this cleaning apparatus. You can crank the psi a little higher to try to clear a really stuck injector, but if it wont clear it needs to be replaced.
Okay so back to your problem, my next guess was fuel pressure regualtor, that often floods the engine and would cause a hard start.
Fuel system resitriction such as the sock filter at the pickup or a clogged fuel filter is also a great guess, but performance would really noticably suffer if the restriction was bad enough to cause a hard start condition.
My next guess would be the IAC system (Idle Air Control). I don't know enough about 5.0's to know if they use such a system but if the IAC motor were to be stuck closed, it would not get enough air into the cylinders and cause a hard start.
Like I said, I don't know a lot about Fords yet, but I'm learning. I'm looking to buy a '91-'93 5.0 LX Hatch real soon so then i will really be able to know what I'm talking about.
Remember and engine needs 3 things basic things to run: Air, Fuel, Spark. Without one of the 3 it aint gonna work. Also, too much air (vacuum leak), or too much fuel (bad fuel pressure regulator) will make it hard to start or run like crap.
I hope I was able to help a little.
Later dudes
02-07-2005, 10:00 PM
#26
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Join Date: Jul 2003
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RE: Simple problem, not so simple solution =(
well good that your learnin...keep up the work...the bg products cleaner is like what you use at your shop...it can be injected with the I call it the pressurize pistol
it's not sold in stores..to be straight realy no cleaner can clean an injector all the way unless there pulled and reverse flushed..too expensive ..I would just have them sent off and balanced so to speak as they will flow the same and the pattern will be the same...you RIGHT it good be the IAC, I have seen weak pumps do this as well...torn socks..bad connections..the list goes on.....
it's not sold in stores..to be straight realy no cleaner can clean an injector all the way unless there pulled and reverse flushed..too expensive ..I would just have them sent off and balanced so to speak as they will flow the same and the pattern will be the same...you RIGHT it good be the IAC, I have seen weak pumps do this as well...torn socks..bad connections..the list goes on.....
02-08-2005, 09:47 AM
#29
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mt. Prospect, IL
Posts: 11
RE: Simple problem, not so simple solution =(
Yeah thanks dude! Im tryin!
So next place to check would be the IAC then. Take it out and look for carbon buildup in the intake port for it or on the motor's pintle itself. Take it out and have it plugged in. Have somebody turn the key to the "on" position for you the IAC motor should extend all the way out and then come back in a little. If the motor doesnt move or the pintle is binding, you have yourself a bad IAC.
Another good check would be carbon buildup around the throttle body blade. If so get in there with some throttle body cleaner (carb cleaner should do) and scrub the heck out of it with a wire brush.
Basically you will get a hard start if you have too much air or too little air going into the motor. Too much air might be cause be a vacuum leak (stuck open EGR valve) or a broken vacuum line. However a vacuum leak would also cause high idle and you didnt comment on that so my guess would be not enough air getting into the motor. An easy way to diagnose that would be to just crack the throttle open a hair while starting it and see if it starts any faster.
Try out those tips and let us know what you come up with. Later!
So next place to check would be the IAC then. Take it out and look for carbon buildup in the intake port for it or on the motor's pintle itself. Take it out and have it plugged in. Have somebody turn the key to the "on" position for you the IAC motor should extend all the way out and then come back in a little. If the motor doesnt move or the pintle is binding, you have yourself a bad IAC.
Another good check would be carbon buildup around the throttle body blade. If so get in there with some throttle body cleaner (carb cleaner should do) and scrub the heck out of it with a wire brush.
Basically you will get a hard start if you have too much air or too little air going into the motor. Too much air might be cause be a vacuum leak (stuck open EGR valve) or a broken vacuum line. However a vacuum leak would also cause high idle and you didnt comment on that so my guess would be not enough air getting into the motor. An easy way to diagnose that would be to just crack the throttle open a hair while starting it and see if it starts any faster.
Try out those tips and let us know what you come up with. Later!
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