losing the back end on WOT
07-15-2006, 02:24 AM
#11
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location:
Posts: 61
RE: losing the back end on WOT
You need to put in your old gears.
Ever wonder why a Z06 goes 0-60 in first gear? With your blower, the 4.3 is a big mismatch.
Read F1Fan posts on suspension.
In the meantime, you will be faster leaving the traction control on. You will also will scare the neighbors less.
Ever wonder why a Z06 goes 0-60 in first gear? With your blower, the 4.3 is a big mismatch.
Read F1Fan posts on suspension.
In the meantime, you will be faster leaving the traction control on. You will also will scare the neighbors less.
07-16-2006, 02:52 PM
#12
I ♥ Acer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: So Cal
Posts: 239
RE: losing the back end on WOT
ORIGINAL: CrazyAl
OK, you have a blower (11 psi! damn!) and 4.30s. No wonder you're not getting any traction! Even with STOCK HP and STOCK GEARS these cars have a traction problem!
As LL05 said, tires are a START. Try to find something grippy and wide in the back. BFG KD or KDW2, Goodyear Eagle F1, Nitto 555, something like that. A drag radial would be even better if you don't mind the shoddy tread life on the street. If you are changing your wheels out, try to stick to as small a diameter as you can. That way you get more sidewall flex which encourages a larger contact patch on the road, and also helps prevent the tire from breaking traction as much. In other words, no 20" wheels.
I suggest, as a minimum, new lower control arms in the rear (BMR or Spohn tubular), and lower control arm relocation brackets (BMR). With the kind of power you're making, have the brackets welded in place. That will help plant the rear when you get on the gas.
Seriously, I would consider doing the entire rear suspension with that kind of power: larger rear sway bar, panhard bar and panhard bar brace, subframe brace (weld in), upper control arm & mount, and so on. Double-check your pinion angle so that it's set right (get adjustable LCAs to do this).
OK, you have a blower (11 psi! damn!) and 4.30s. No wonder you're not getting any traction! Even with STOCK HP and STOCK GEARS these cars have a traction problem!
As LL05 said, tires are a START. Try to find something grippy and wide in the back. BFG KD or KDW2, Goodyear Eagle F1, Nitto 555, something like that. A drag radial would be even better if you don't mind the shoddy tread life on the street. If you are changing your wheels out, try to stick to as small a diameter as you can. That way you get more sidewall flex which encourages a larger contact patch on the road, and also helps prevent the tire from breaking traction as much. In other words, no 20" wheels.
I suggest, as a minimum, new lower control arms in the rear (BMR or Spohn tubular), and lower control arm relocation brackets (BMR). With the kind of power you're making, have the brackets welded in place. That will help plant the rear when you get on the gas.
Seriously, I would consider doing the entire rear suspension with that kind of power: larger rear sway bar, panhard bar and panhard bar brace, subframe brace (weld in), upper control arm & mount, and so on. Double-check your pinion angle so that it's set right (get adjustable LCAs to do this).
Two of the most important things in keeping straight is your LCA's and panhard bar. DO NOT relocate either unless it is absolutely neccessarry. So many guys have used the relocation brackets on these particular pieces for no reason. The ONLY reason you should relocate anything from it's stock position is because you HAVE to in order to fit a more important part. The only thing on the car this does not apply to is engine mounts. I also do not think 4.30 is too much gear for your set-up, but those gears with your power is definitely not for a stock suspension set-up and is, quite franky, down right dangerous. Even with good rubber, you are going to have problems. Good rubber is a priortiy AFTER good suspension. You obviously put some $$$ into the power, it is foolish not to put $$$ to make it useable IMO. So many guys are dyno queens and fixated on HP but the real secret to being fast is the ability to put your power to the ground. In my book, suspension first, power second.
I personally like the metco Upper and lower CA's and everyone's panhard bar is about the same but I like the panhard brace from BMR or CHE performance. Give Chuck at CHE performance a call. I'm not plugging his store in any way shape or form, but he is a great guy that will talk to you for an hour and knows his sheet. For that reason, he is a great guy to get info from. He builds all of the suspension components for powerhouse and a couple other heavy hitters. He uses his own stuff and BMR. You can live without the sub-frame connectors for now cause you aren't making that much power, but CA's, panhard bar, brace, and aftermarket sway bar are a must have IMO. Then start looking at other braces and support pieces if you need more.
07-16-2006, 03:10 PM
#13
3rd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location:
Posts: 608
RE: losing the back end on WOT
Thanks,
I might get rid of the gears. I'm not into racing actually. I might take a crack at the 1/4 after I work on the suspension. The Mustang is my first Muscle car and this little project kind of got out of hand. I don't know how guys like ChevyKiller can drive their cars on the streets. I might put the old gear back on even with suspension work and wheels. It gets very tricky when it's raining. The car jerks forward when you let go of the break, you don't have to touch the gas. It's very aggressive. I don't know how to adjust the TC but I'll give my tuner a call tomorrow. I would never beleive an auto could get to that point. Silly me....
I ordered pretty the whole section of the Moss catalog that covers suspension over the week end
Patrick
ORIGINAL: blowngt
ALMOST +1....lol - I agree with almost everything you said but want to point something important out...
Two of the most important things in keeping straight is your LCA's and panhard bar. DO NOT relocate either unless it is absolutely neccessarry. So many guys have used the relocation brackets on these particular pieces for no reason. The ONLY reason you should relocate anything from it's stock position is because you HAVE to in order to fit a more important part. The only thing on the car this does not apply to is engine mounts. I also do not think 4.30 is too much gear for your set-up, but those gears with your power is definitely not for a stock suspension set-up and is, quite franky, down right dangerous. Even with good rubber, you are going to have problems. Good rubber is a priortiy AFTER good suspension. You obviously put some $$$ into the power, it is foolish not to put $$$ to make it useable IMO. So many guys are dyno queens and fixated on HP but the real secret to being fast is the ability to put your power to the ground. In my book, suspension first, power second.
I personally like the metco Upper and lower CA's and everyone's panhard bar is about the same but I like the panhard brace from BMR or CHE performance. Give Chuck at CHE performance a call. I'm not plugging his store in any way shape or form, but he is a great guy that will talk to you for an hour and knows his sheet. For that reason, he is a great guy to get info from. He builds all of the suspension components for powerhouse and a couple other heavy hitters. He uses his own stuff and BMR. You can live without the sub-frame connectors for now cause you aren't making that much power, but CA's, panhard bar, brace, and aftermarket sway bar are a must have IMO. Then start looking at other braces and support pieces if you need more.
ORIGINAL: CrazyAl
OK, you have a blower (11 psi! damn!) and 4.30s. No wonder you're not getting any traction! Even with STOCK HP and STOCK GEARS these cars have a traction problem!
As LL05 said, tires are a START. Try to find something grippy and wide in the back. BFG KD or KDW2, Goodyear Eagle F1, Nitto 555, something like that. A drag radial would be even better if you don't mind the shoddy tread life on the street. If you are changing your wheels out, try to stick to as small a diameter as you can. That way you get more sidewall flex which encourages a larger contact patch on the road, and also helps prevent the tire from breaking traction as much. In other words, no 20" wheels.
I suggest, as a minimum, new lower control arms in the rear (BMR or Spohn tubular), and lower control arm relocation brackets (BMR). With the kind of power you're making, have the brackets welded in place. That will help plant the rear when you get on the gas.
Seriously, I would consider doing the entire rear suspension with that kind of power: larger rear sway bar, panhard bar and panhard bar brace, subframe brace (weld in), upper control arm & mount, and so on. Double-check your pinion angle so that it's set right (get adjustable LCAs to do this).
OK, you have a blower (11 psi! damn!) and 4.30s. No wonder you're not getting any traction! Even with STOCK HP and STOCK GEARS these cars have a traction problem!
As LL05 said, tires are a START. Try to find something grippy and wide in the back. BFG KD or KDW2, Goodyear Eagle F1, Nitto 555, something like that. A drag radial would be even better if you don't mind the shoddy tread life on the street. If you are changing your wheels out, try to stick to as small a diameter as you can. That way you get more sidewall flex which encourages a larger contact patch on the road, and also helps prevent the tire from breaking traction as much. In other words, no 20" wheels.
I suggest, as a minimum, new lower control arms in the rear (BMR or Spohn tubular), and lower control arm relocation brackets (BMR). With the kind of power you're making, have the brackets welded in place. That will help plant the rear when you get on the gas.
Seriously, I would consider doing the entire rear suspension with that kind of power: larger rear sway bar, panhard bar and panhard bar brace, subframe brace (weld in), upper control arm & mount, and so on. Double-check your pinion angle so that it's set right (get adjustable LCAs to do this).
Two of the most important things in keeping straight is your LCA's and panhard bar. DO NOT relocate either unless it is absolutely neccessarry. So many guys have used the relocation brackets on these particular pieces for no reason. The ONLY reason you should relocate anything from it's stock position is because you HAVE to in order to fit a more important part. The only thing on the car this does not apply to is engine mounts. I also do not think 4.30 is too much gear for your set-up, but those gears with your power is definitely not for a stock suspension set-up and is, quite franky, down right dangerous. Even with good rubber, you are going to have problems. Good rubber is a priortiy AFTER good suspension. You obviously put some $$$ into the power, it is foolish not to put $$$ to make it useable IMO. So many guys are dyno queens and fixated on HP but the real secret to being fast is the ability to put your power to the ground. In my book, suspension first, power second.
I personally like the metco Upper and lower CA's and everyone's panhard bar is about the same but I like the panhard brace from BMR or CHE performance. Give Chuck at CHE performance a call. I'm not plugging his store in any way shape or form, but he is a great guy that will talk to you for an hour and knows his sheet. For that reason, he is a great guy to get info from. He builds all of the suspension components for powerhouse and a couple other heavy hitters. He uses his own stuff and BMR. You can live without the sub-frame connectors for now cause you aren't making that much power, but CA's, panhard bar, brace, and aftermarket sway bar are a must have IMO. Then start looking at other braces and support pieces if you need more.
07-16-2006, 03:58 PM
#14
I ♥ Acer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: So Cal
Posts: 239
RE: losing the back end on WOT
ORIGINAL: freefallpat
Thanks,
I might get rid of the gears. I'm not into racing actually. I might take a crack at the 1/4 after I work on the suspension. The Mustang is my first Muscle car and this little project kind of got out of hand. I don't know how guys like ChevyKiller can drive their cars on the streets. I might put the old gear back on even with suspension work and wheels. It gets very tricky when it's raining. The car jerks forward when you let go of the break, you don't have to touch the gas. It's very aggressive. I don't know how to adjust the TC but I'll give my tuner a call tomorrow. I would never beleive an auto could get to that point. Silly me....
I ordered pretty the whole section of the Moss catalog that covers suspension over the week end
Patrick
Thanks,
I might get rid of the gears. I'm not into racing actually. I might take a crack at the 1/4 after I work on the suspension. The Mustang is my first Muscle car and this little project kind of got out of hand. I don't know how guys like ChevyKiller can drive their cars on the streets. I might put the old gear back on even with suspension work and wheels. It gets very tricky when it's raining. The car jerks forward when you let go of the break, you don't have to touch the gas. It's very aggressive. I don't know how to adjust the TC but I'll give my tuner a call tomorrow. I would never beleive an auto could get to that point. Silly me....
I ordered pretty the whole section of the Moss catalog that covers suspension over the week end
Patrick
ORIGINAL: blowngt
ALMOST +1....lol - I agree with almost everything you said but want to point something important out...
Two of the most important things in keeping straight is your LCA's and panhard bar. DO NOT relocate either unless it is absolutely neccessarry. So many guys have used the relocation brackets on these particular pieces for no reason. The ONLY reason you should relocate anything from it's stock position is because you HAVE to in order to fit a more important part. The only thing on the car this does not apply to is engine mounts. I also do not think 4.30 is too much gear for your set-up, but those gears with your power is definitely not for a stock suspension set-up and is, quite franky, down right dangerous. Even with good rubber, you are going to have problems. Good rubber is a priortiy AFTER good suspension. You obviously put some $$$ into the power, it is foolish not to put $$$ to make it useable IMO. So many guys are dyno queens and fixated on HP but the real secret to being fast is the ability to put your power to the ground. In my book, suspension first, power second.
I personally like the metco Upper and lower CA's and everyone's panhard bar is about the same but I like the panhard brace from BMR or CHE performance. Give Chuck at CHE performance a call. I'm not plugging his store in any way shape or form, but he is a great guy that will talk to you for an hour and knows his sheet. For that reason, he is a great guy to get info from. He builds all of the suspension components for powerhouse and a couple other heavy hitters. He uses his own stuff and BMR. You can live without the sub-frame connectors for now cause you aren't making that much power, but CA's, panhard bar, brace, and aftermarket sway bar are a must have IMO. Then start looking at other braces and support pieces if you need more.
ORIGINAL: CrazyAl
OK, you have a blower (11 psi! damn!) and 4.30s. No wonder you're not getting any traction! Even with STOCK HP and STOCK GEARS these cars have a traction problem!
As LL05 said, tires are a START. Try to find something grippy and wide in the back. BFG KD or KDW2, Goodyear Eagle F1, Nitto 555, something like that. A drag radial would be even better if you don't mind the shoddy tread life on the street. If you are changing your wheels out, try to stick to as small a diameter as you can. That way you get more sidewall flex which encourages a larger contact patch on the road, and also helps prevent the tire from breaking traction as much. In other words, no 20" wheels.
I suggest, as a minimum, new lower control arms in the rear (BMR or Spohn tubular), and lower control arm relocation brackets (BMR). With the kind of power you're making, have the brackets welded in place. That will help plant the rear when you get on the gas.
Seriously, I would consider doing the entire rear suspension with that kind of power: larger rear sway bar, panhard bar and panhard bar brace, subframe brace (weld in), upper control arm & mount, and so on. Double-check your pinion angle so that it's set right (get adjustable LCAs to do this).
OK, you have a blower (11 psi! damn!) and 4.30s. No wonder you're not getting any traction! Even with STOCK HP and STOCK GEARS these cars have a traction problem!
As LL05 said, tires are a START. Try to find something grippy and wide in the back. BFG KD or KDW2, Goodyear Eagle F1, Nitto 555, something like that. A drag radial would be even better if you don't mind the shoddy tread life on the street. If you are changing your wheels out, try to stick to as small a diameter as you can. That way you get more sidewall flex which encourages a larger contact patch on the road, and also helps prevent the tire from breaking traction as much. In other words, no 20" wheels.
I suggest, as a minimum, new lower control arms in the rear (BMR or Spohn tubular), and lower control arm relocation brackets (BMR). With the kind of power you're making, have the brackets welded in place. That will help plant the rear when you get on the gas.
Seriously, I would consider doing the entire rear suspension with that kind of power: larger rear sway bar, panhard bar and panhard bar brace, subframe brace (weld in), upper control arm & mount, and so on. Double-check your pinion angle so that it's set right (get adjustable LCAs to do this).
Two of the most important things in keeping straight is your LCA's and panhard bar. DO NOT relocate either unless it is absolutely neccessarry. So many guys have used the relocation brackets on these particular pieces for no reason. The ONLY reason you should relocate anything from it's stock position is because you HAVE to in order to fit a more important part. The only thing on the car this does not apply to is engine mounts. I also do not think 4.30 is too much gear for your set-up, but those gears with your power is definitely not for a stock suspension set-up and is, quite franky, down right dangerous. Even with good rubber, you are going to have problems. Good rubber is a priortiy AFTER good suspension. You obviously put some $$$ into the power, it is foolish not to put $$$ to make it useable IMO. So many guys are dyno queens and fixated on HP but the real secret to being fast is the ability to put your power to the ground. In my book, suspension first, power second.
I personally like the metco Upper and lower CA's and everyone's panhard bar is about the same but I like the panhard brace from BMR or CHE performance. Give Chuck at CHE performance a call. I'm not plugging his store in any way shape or form, but he is a great guy that will talk to you for an hour and knows his sheet. For that reason, he is a great guy to get info from. He builds all of the suspension components for powerhouse and a couple other heavy hitters. He uses his own stuff and BMR. You can live without the sub-frame connectors for now cause you aren't making that much power, but CA's, panhard bar, brace, and aftermarket sway bar are a must have IMO. Then start looking at other braces and support pieces if you need more.
07-16-2006, 04:52 PM
#15
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location:
Posts: 61
RE: losing the back end on WOT
If your not drag racing and shaving tenths, and past the age of spending friday night doing burnouts with the boys, these real low gears on an automatics don't make a lot of sense. If you change a bunch of stuff all at once, you're probably giving too much credit to the gears.
With a good 3000 rpm torque converter and stock gears, the car can do big burnouts from a standing start. With a good start (not smoking the tires), the car will be shifting into 2 within two seconds. So the point of the 4.3's is what? With standart or 3.73 you can cruise at 90 down the interstate in comfort for hours.
More is not always better. A car balanced for its use is better.
With a good 3000 rpm torque converter and stock gears, the car can do big burnouts from a standing start. With a good start (not smoking the tires), the car will be shifting into 2 within two seconds. So the point of the 4.3's is what? With standart or 3.73 you can cruise at 90 down the interstate in comfort for hours.
More is not always better. A car balanced for its use is better.
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