2005-2014 Mustangs Discussions on the latest S197 model Mustangs from Ford.

Altitude Sickness...

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Old Jul 14, 2011 | 01:57 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by Mishri
hah yeah, check my sig for what altitude does to you everything feels relative though. I really want to take my car down to sea level, see how it feels or run it at a drag strip if possible.

like riptide said, n2o or a lot of boost can negate the effects of altitude though. there are some formulas to determine how much boost you need to run for it to no longer have an effect. like the air pressure at sea level is 32 psi and at 6000' DA it's 17 psi and compression ratio in your car is 11:1 and you are running 36psi of boost and you stick in a forumala i posted somewhere and it comes out to not needing a DA correction As far as I know that is mostly theory, I haven't seen proven real world results, maybe someone who has done a lot of travelling with a heavily modded dragster can say.
according to http://www.convert-me.com/en/convert/pressure
1 Atmosphere = 14.69595 PSI
being that the unit of Atmosphere is based on STP (standard temp and pressure)
that would mean that sealevel is about 14psi
I'm not sure of the air pressure at 6000' but lets say its 9psi

so in an 11:1 engine at sea level at TDC the air is at a pressure of 161.65545psi
then at 6000' it would be 99psi
so to bring the car to be even with sea level via a supercharger you should need about 5psi of boost and need to acount for the fact that as the air is less dense that the same pully size would make less boost than at sea level

now a super charged car at say 11psi with 11:1 (ya a bit crazy) would have pressure of 282.65545psi at sea level

at 6000' (assuming its 9psi) you'd have 220psi tdc
Old Jul 14, 2011 | 04:25 PM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by Derf00
Cars sold in various states like Colorado will have a 'High Altitude' tune. In the past it would make a difference in the emissions devices too.
Can you substantiate that please? I've never heard of that until now and certainly never read it in any manufacturer's documentation or brochures.
Old Jul 14, 2011 | 07:02 PM
  #13  
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Mishri
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Derf00 is making it up. my 2007 GT was made for CA (windowsticker) order was cancelled then shipped to MT, no change in the PCM or tuning on it. modern fuel injection doesn't require any changes in tuning. old carberuated engines did need to be tuned for the elevation though. many cars driving from Phoenix to flagstaff used to die once they got up in the mountains back in the day.
Old Jul 14, 2011 | 07:15 PM
  #14  
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Mishri
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Originally Posted by Ford_Dude
according to http://www.convert-me.com/en/convert/pressure
1 Atmosphere = 14.69595 PSI
being that the unit of Atmosphere is based on STP (standard temp and pressure)
that would mean that sealevel is about 14psi
I'm not sure of the air pressure at 6000' but lets say its 9psi

so in an 11:1 engine at sea level at TDC the air is at a pressure of 161.65545psi
then at 6000' it would be 99psi
so to bring the car to be even with sea level via a supercharger you should need about 5psi of boost and need to acount for the fact that as the air is less dense that the same pully size would make less boost than at sea level

now a super charged car at say 11psi with 11:1 (ya a bit crazy) would have pressure of 282.65545psi at sea level

at 6000' (assuming its 9psi) you'd have 220psi tdc

I was just making up numbers but if you want to get techincal your math and how you look at it is completely wrong look here: https://mustangforums.com/forum/stre...lping-you.html


The true correction for FI depends on how much boost you are making. The 1/2 correction factor is accurate if you are making 14.7psi of boost, below that and you should get more correction and above you get less.

I'll use a NA car, one making 14.7psi boost and my Buick as an example making 21psi of boost.

Say that we have a day with a DA of 6000' (pretty common on a summer day in Acton). That equates to 11.78psi of air pressure. Percent loss is going to be absolute pressure up here divided by absolute pressure at sealevel

14.7psi / 14.7psi = 1 (sealevel has no power loss so no correction)
11.78psi / 14.7psi = 80.1% NA (19.9% less power for the NA car))
(11.78psi + 14.7psi) / (14.7psi + 14.7psi) = 90.07% (9.93% less power or 50% correction for 14.7psi boost)
(11.78psi + 21psi) / (14.7psi + 21psi) = 91.82% (8.18% less power or 41% correction for 21psi)

What about a 40psi dsm...
(11.78psi + 40psi) / (14.7psi + 40psi) = 94.66% (5.34% less power or 27% correction for 40psi)

How about a low boost supercharger, my GTO had 5.5psi
(11.78psi + 5.5psi) / (14.7psi + 5.5psi) = 85.55% (14.45% less power or 73% correction for 5.5psi)

and people are running 15psi on the stock 11:1 coyote engine, so not too crazy.

Last edited by Mishri; Jul 14, 2011 at 07:24 PM.
Old Jul 15, 2011 | 01:16 AM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by Riptide
There is only so much they can do to "fix" this with a tune. Less oxygen in the air means less power period. And keep in mind that MANY people use mail order tunes as well and are not dyno tuned or given any type of special high altitude mail order tune.

You want to "fix" this then you need to put a blower on the car or start using a bottle. Either that or move.

On the bright side it effects everybody else the same so the playing field is leveled. People that run 13s in the 1/4 mile NA at sea level are all going to be down by nearly a full second at 5000+ feet. It's all relative..
Makes sense to me. We had a 3 car caravan. I was leading, followed by my friend's Nissan Juke Turbo, and another friend's 4 cyl Equinox trailing.

The Juke held up pretty well. My friend hardly noticed any power dropoff. The guy with the Equinox told me his little 4 cyl was having a hard time passing cars up the mountain.
Old Jul 15, 2011 | 01:19 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by highline
as said, yes, if you live there your tune would be different than at sea level...where you go to? Have a house at Zephyr Cove...Nice there
We ended up renting a cabin on the Heavenly side past Al Tahoe Blvd off of Pioneer Tr. We spent most of our time at Fallen Leaf Lake and Pope Beach.

Zephyr Cove = very nice. It was our first choice, but we booked late and there were little options there by then.
Old Jul 15, 2011 | 09:27 AM
  #17  
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I drove my 4.6 3v car at over 10,000 feet here in MT. Beartooth/Cook City pass. The car was an absolute DOG at low rpms. That was with a brenspeed tune on there.

Altitude sucks.
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