BBK long tubes
02-01-2013, 08:18 AM
#11
The design of the headers causes the exhaust to exit in the firing order of the motor so that the exhaust causes a constant spiral flow like a vortex.
If rusting isn't an issue then go with the Pypes, for no more money than the BBK, you can have a better performing header.
Bassani and SLP are a few others that make headers like this.
Pypes Stepped Headers These are used on a few sponsored drag cars with I think one of them holding a record.
02-01-2013, 12:50 PM
#13
02-01-2013, 04:58 PM
#14
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Mass
Posts: 2,662
First off, where are these power tests, I'm curious? Why are you leg humping the pypes so much? Could you gain a tad more? Probably. Are their slow 3v's making 600+ hp without stepped headers? Sure are!
Second, you get what you pay for. Pypes is known to have terrible customer service, as well as a product that may fit the first time, it may not. It may also seem like it fits, then have a flange that isn't flat and will leak.
He said money is no object. Do I think pypes are good if you're looking to get a mid-range $$ header? Sure.
If you want the best, its going to be ARH, stainless works, or JPC.
Second, you get what you pay for. Pypes is known to have terrible customer service, as well as a product that may fit the first time, it may not. It may also seem like it fits, then have a flange that isn't flat and will leak.
He said money is no object. Do I think pypes are good if you're looking to get a mid-range $$ header? Sure.
If you want the best, its going to be ARH, stainless works, or JPC.
02-01-2013, 05:22 PM
#15
First off, where are these power tests, I'm curious? Why are you leg humping the pypes so much? Could you gain a tad more? Probably. Are their slow 3v's making 600+ hp without stepped headers? Sure are!
Second, you get what you pay for. Pypes is known to have terrible customer service, as well as a product that may fit the first time, it may not. It may also seem like it fits, then have a flange that isn't flat and will leak.
He said money is no object. Do I think pypes are good if you're looking to get a mid-range $$ header? Sure.
If you want the best, its going to be ARH, stainless works, or JPC.
Second, you get what you pay for. Pypes is known to have terrible customer service, as well as a product that may fit the first time, it may not. It may also seem like it fits, then have a flange that isn't flat and will leak.
He said money is no object. Do I think pypes are good if you're looking to get a mid-range $$ header? Sure.
If you want the best, its going to be ARH, stainless works, or JPC.
I just don't see paying that much more for something that doesn't produce the power when you're paying for it. Other than fitment, how much could go wrong with stainless steel headers that don't cost north of $900? Fitment, really and truly, is hit and miss everywhere. No company is going to make every product the exact same and even Kooks has had fitment issues on the 5.0s from what I hear.
I'm just providing the other side of the argument that just because you pay more, doesn't mean you get more.
Edit: After checking also, JPC's apparently follow the same stepped pattern. But here is a link for the test results for you to check out.
Pypes Stepped Headers test thread on SVT Performance
Last edited by ZPounds07GT; 02-01-2013 at 05:49 PM.
02-02-2013, 08:04 AM
#16
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Mass
Posts: 2,662
Fitment in my mind is worth top $$$. Ive never heard of an ARH install gone bad due to fitment. Mine fit like a glove, and the flanges had the bolt holes all cut in a U shape, so you could thread in the top 4 bolts, slide the header up, then thread one on the bottom and you were good to go from there. I'm also a fan of the slip fit exhaust connectors they use, since you can toss in a prochamber if you want to. Also, I can remove the transmission without having to remove the headers!
As to that test, has there been any testing with a non-stepped header? I think the gains with a non-stepped version would be very similar, with the stepped versions getting more and more delta for the more mods you add on. Specially on the 5.0's with how much they need to breathe straight out of the factory. In the 3v world, ARH will make the most power. I called a bunch of tuners and they all said the same thing. One guy actually said he charges more for a pypes install because its a PITA! lol.
Also, again this is 3v land, but ARH did include everything i needed for the install. I see pypes does too for the 5.0, but some companies you have to be careful.
The only reason I suggested ARH from the start was the "Money means nothing" or whatever he said. Also some people would like to pay more for having it USA made and not a copy from China (really pointing at 3v versions of pypes stuff here).
As to that test, has there been any testing with a non-stepped header? I think the gains with a non-stepped version would be very similar, with the stepped versions getting more and more delta for the more mods you add on. Specially on the 5.0's with how much they need to breathe straight out of the factory. In the 3v world, ARH will make the most power. I called a bunch of tuners and they all said the same thing. One guy actually said he charges more for a pypes install because its a PITA! lol.
Also, again this is 3v land, but ARH did include everything i needed for the install. I see pypes does too for the 5.0, but some companies you have to be careful.
The only reason I suggested ARH from the start was the "Money means nothing" or whatever he said. Also some people would like to pay more for having it USA made and not a copy from China (really pointing at 3v versions of pypes stuff here).
02-02-2013, 08:38 AM
#17
Fitment in my mind is worth top $$$. Ive never heard of an ARH install gone bad due to fitment. Mine fit like a glove, and the flanges had the bolt holes all cut in a U shape, so you could thread in the top 4 bolts, slide the header up, then thread one on the bottom and you were good to go from there. I'm also a fan of the slip fit exhaust connectors they use, since you can toss in a prochamber if you want to. Also, I can remove the transmission without having to remove the headers!
As to that test, has there been any testing with a non-stepped header? I think the gains with a non-stepped version would be very similar, with the stepped versions getting more and more delta for the more mods you add on. Specially on the 5.0's with how much they need to breathe straight out of the factory. In the 3v world, ARH will make the most power. I called a bunch of tuners and they all said the same thing. One guy actually said he charges more for a pypes install because its a PITA! lol.
Also, again this is 3v land, but ARH did include everything i needed for the install. I see pypes does too for the 5.0, but some companies you have to be careful.
The only reason I suggested ARH from the start was the "Money means nothing" or whatever he said. Also some people would like to pay more for having it USA made and not a copy from China (really pointing at 3v versions of pypes stuff here).
As to that test, has there been any testing with a non-stepped header? I think the gains with a non-stepped version would be very similar, with the stepped versions getting more and more delta for the more mods you add on. Specially on the 5.0's with how much they need to breathe straight out of the factory. In the 3v world, ARH will make the most power. I called a bunch of tuners and they all said the same thing. One guy actually said he charges more for a pypes install because its a PITA! lol.
Also, again this is 3v land, but ARH did include everything i needed for the install. I see pypes does too for the 5.0, but some companies you have to be careful.
The only reason I suggested ARH from the start was the "Money means nothing" or whatever he said. Also some people would like to pay more for having it USA made and not a copy from China (really pointing at 3v versions of pypes stuff here).
I have not seen one with a direct comparison on the same vehicle, dyno and with the same conditions. I have heard on numerous occasions that the ARH are the best when it comes to 3v's.
My Pypes x pipe wasn't exactly the best fit when I put it on either so I can see that they don't have the best fitment but it wasn't hard to get it to fit once we started messing with it.
What doesn't make sense to me is if money wasn't an issue, then just a little bit of searching would show that a company like ARH or Kooks would typically be considered the best.
02-02-2013, 09:55 AM
#18
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Mass
Posts: 2,662
I hadn't heard of a bad Kooks install until recently either. But anything is possible. Everyone is going to have their preference. Having your choice of mid-pipe is nice though, considering you can "only use the Pypes x pipe" according to what the SVT thread says.
I have not seen one with a direct comparison on the same vehicle, dyno and with the same conditions. I have heard on numerous occasions that the ARH are the best when it comes to 3v's.
My Pypes x pipe wasn't exactly the best fit when I put it on either so I can see that they don't have the best fitment but it wasn't hard to get it to fit once we started messing with it.
What doesn't make sense to me is if money wasn't an issue, then just a little bit of searching would show that a company like ARH or Kooks would typically be considered the best.
I have not seen one with a direct comparison on the same vehicle, dyno and with the same conditions. I have heard on numerous occasions that the ARH are the best when it comes to 3v's.
My Pypes x pipe wasn't exactly the best fit when I put it on either so I can see that they don't have the best fitment but it wasn't hard to get it to fit once we started messing with it.
What doesn't make sense to me is if money wasn't an issue, then just a little bit of searching would show that a company like ARH or Kooks would typically be considered the best.
There was one test 5.0 mag did with a blown 3v, and most people point to it and go "OOH MACS WERE THE BEST". Problem was
1) ARH were not tested
2) It was on a car with like 15psi, and the MAC's were the only 1 3/4" header in the test haha.
To your last point, OP has 7 posts. It's certainly not uncommon for a new person to just ask, instead of reading the 29283483248 threads on the same subject
Good discussion my friend!
02-02-2013, 10:13 AM
#19
The mid pipe is always going to be interchangeable (with maybe a little modification) based on the connection type, and length of the header. So somebody with JBA headers could most likely use an ARH midpipe, since the JBA's are full length, and use the slip fit connectors. I'm 90% sure people with pypes have used Kooks midpipes with success.
There was one test 5.0 mag did with a blown 3v, and most people point to it and go "OOH MACS WERE THE BEST". Problem was
1) ARH were not tested
2) It was on a car with like 15psi, and the MAC's were the only 1 3/4" header in the test haha.
To your last point, OP has 7 posts. It's certainly not uncommon for a new person to just ask, instead of reading the 29283483248 threads on the same subject
Good discussion my friend!
There was one test 5.0 mag did with a blown 3v, and most people point to it and go "OOH MACS WERE THE BEST". Problem was
1) ARH were not tested
2) It was on a car with like 15psi, and the MAC's were the only 1 3/4" header in the test haha.
To your last point, OP has 7 posts. It's certainly not uncommon for a new person to just ask, instead of reading the 29283483248 threads on the same subject
Good discussion my friend!
I did hear about that test when checking up on MACs, I was researching them when considering headers because of the price (which I could get a discount on also) and the claims but realized the data wasn't exactly reputable.
I didn't pay attention to the post count but you are correct about that. Unfortunately this forum seems to have a bad rep among other forums for these type of threads. No offense to the OP, I have also been guilty of this.
Much agreed my friend
02-02-2013, 11:14 AM
#20
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: IL
Posts: 32
So I've done my research and pretty much came up with the same thing that happened here. No definite answer. It seems like a lot of people though are happy with the BBK ceramics, for price and quality. It almost seems that it is a preference/brand loyalty thing. Yes, I do not have a budget for this but I don't want to be dumb about it. Why would I pay 1200+ for a set of headers that give 27rwhp (completely theoretical numbers) when a set of $800 headers and x pipe will give me say 23 to 25rwhp. Is it really worth the price difference? Now on the flip side if it gains much more hp or the quality of one is better than the other then I'll spend the money. I actually would prefer to buy from an american made company.
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