Norm Peterson

The devil is going to be in the details here.

I've been hearing something about "control blade" IRS, which may be a more attractive arrangement as far as launching from a standstill is concerned. Haven't seen anything close to good enough to estimate geometry.

Peace of mind/new vehicle stops being important once you decide to make any mods to it, and I doubt that any Mustang IRS will be immune. Didn't take long for Pedders, Pfadt, BMR, and others to get involved with the 5th gen Camaro.

moose - that massive structure reminds me a little of the early XKE Jaguar rear suspension assemblies, except it's prettier than stamped sheetmetal. There are other things about it where I see at least yellow flags . . . like that short vertical link for one (what is it fixing that could have been done more simply?), and mounting the shock off the lower arm and the spring on the upper for another. I'm trying to overlook the IRS snobbishness in that article, with limited success.


Norm

Norm Peterson

True.

SCCA estimates (via the PAX factors) that a stock 350Z or 370Z could run a given 60 second autocross course about a quarter second faster than a stock S197 Mustang. I'd expect your mods to be worth up to a little over a full second per minute over a base Mustang GT - I don't think you're all the way comparable to ESP yet, which would be worth another half second or so.


Norm

DPE

350Zs are turds on track (and most everywhere else). I speak from experience. Somehow that car has all the right specs and ticks all the right boxes as far as what you want in a sports car, and manages to be nothing of the sort. With decent summer tires and track brake pads and fluid alone, you'll have a better track car in a Mustang GT. Everyone has already gone through the usual upgrade path, save one....

Just learn to drive well. At least half of the people at any given track day are novices and/or simply not very good at driving on track. This doesn't make them bad people, but they just can't drive or are unwilling to push their car hard enough to go fast. Usually it's closer to 75%. By no means am I related to an Andretti, but in my lowly stock-motor 2010GT I was faster than two Boss 302s and one GT500 at the last track day I took my car to. But I've been slower than an RX-8 (driven by my friend, who is quite good).

As for German car handling, I remain skeptical. The E36 M3 was awful good, but 911s mostly suck once you get them up around the limit. There, I said it . And yes, I've taken a few to the limit, of the 993, 996 and 997 flavor. They pretty well just push anymore. Or act like they'll bite you with oversteer if you tempt them. Nothing in between. Not to say they can't be made to handle, but out of the box they are not what they are built up to be. Also have a lot of seat time in E46 and an E90 M3; just disappointing (other than the motors, which are fantastic). My wife's TSX, driven back to back, had notably better steering feel than the E46 M3 (on Dunlop Z1 tires no less), and my 2010 Mustang felt more of a sports car (better balanced, more engaging, and easier to drive fast) with the mods listed in my sig than the E90 M3 (on 275 NTO5s all around) going down Push Mountain Road (a fantastic twisty) in Arkansas. Point of my German car bashing is that I don't think, once modded, you'll miss those German chassis all that much. Simple and crude as it may be, the S197 generally makes a better sports car.

The above is not to suggest that the Mustang is the best sports car in the world. It lacks in steering feel, and the live axle can be squirrely if it gets bumpy. I'm sure the Cayman is lovely, and as I said the old M3s are awfully good. But in my experience you give up nothing from a pure handling standpoint in the Mustang compared to most so-called 'precision handling' Germans (again, once modded with decent shocks at least), and in fact it's better in many ways.

C. Love

I did a few things to my car which made it handle less like a barge in a hurricane.

coilovers--I went BC. I am sure lots of people here will cringe and argue but for the money they are pretty damn good. Until someone shows me some high dollar units vs these cheaper units on a shock dyno I will not waiver from my feelings on these. Another thing I did was up the spring rate from 7K and 5K (rear) to 8K and 6K. I heard the springs on mustang applications were pretty soft. I actually wish i went slightly stiffer because when on a track/course the car needs to have the dampers on full stiff to feel nimble.

Sway bars front and rear--I went with whiteline units pretty good pretty happy keeps things in their place. i have little to say. they are sway bars

UCA-I went with Steeda to keep the pinion angle correct. no noticeable difference but I have looked at times to see if milliseconds were shaved, then again I dont time anything lol

rear traction bars--I got solid Rousch ones for cheap then added a rubber end to one side- they are great

someone mentioned wheels really like they said an 18 is way better but for me looks won the battle. I went 19 but at least they are decently light.

the other is tires. If your serious some nice nitto nt-05, nitto nt-01 or hankook RS-3 would be awesome at making a huge difference.

I personally drift and have used the NT-05 several times (just not on my mustang yet) loved them. I have used advan Ad-07 and ad-08, falken 452, direzza starspecs and for the price the NT-05 was the winner for me.

C. Love

^^sorry should have proof read. Cant seem to find an edit button

jsimmonstx

You've been "spoiled by German cars", yet you want to go as cheap as possible? WTF is that about? Here's what you should do:

0) Lower the car ($200)
1) Adjustable shocks (price varies depending on brand, but expect to spend at least $600)
2) Adjustable sway bars ($450)
3) Watts link ($650)
4) Bump-steer kit and rear LCA relocation brackets ($500)
5) Light wheels. Enkie makes wheels that are only 18 pounds (18-inch), but they're not recommended for use on the street. Forgestar seem to be popular on the street.

Assuming you do your own work instead of taking it to a shop, that's the least amount of money I'd spend.

Finally, why does it matter how well the car performs against a 370Z? As far as I know, the 370Z is NOT the pinnacle of handling against which all other cars should be measured.

Norm Peterson

-1) Top-shelf tires. Michelin PSS and Hankook RS-3 seem to be two of the current favorites. BFG's Rival may turn out to be another.


Norm

tigercrazy718

i know this is more for autox applications in my experience, but i just had my first event with new direzza zII's on my svt focus, and they were phenomenal. i beat my buddy who was running a set of rivals on his focus. just thought i would throw that tire out there.

Haggomyeggo

well i saw this and i thought i would throw my 2 cents in
I have owned both a 350 and 370z and have road raced the 350

1. the 350 is based off the maxima chassis unless you have that last year NISMO edition...
2. they understeer like a bitch....
3. the lower model 350s do not have a LSDs (touring or track models only) adds to the understeer more since the tail wont kick out smootly
4. 350 has what 287 or 306hp in the later models....so power with an older GT should be same...
5. the Zs dont get much from mods...ie intake exhaust.

the 370 is a whole different animal. it rides on its own chassis not one borrowed from another car. plus the engine has another 30hp....still understeered i thought but it was better. the rear end out kick out nicely and you could control it easily. plus the syncro rev-match made heel-toe on a track so simple......you could always be in the right gear...

so bottom line I wouldnt worry too much about a 350
i would say springs and some good tires and you would be right there or past with a 350....

however the big caveat here and its been said is the driver makes all the difference.....